# The Bitcoin Podcast Roundtable #343--Vinay Gupta of Mattereum (part 1 of 2)

> One source from the archive of Vinay Gupta's work at guptaoption.com, as plain text for AI agents: [738], part 1 of 2. Vinay Gupta, exponential humanitarian. In 2002 Vinay Gupta started the Hexayurt Project, a flat-pack refugee shelter anyone can build from standard industrial panels, with a thirty-year plan behind it: build the capacity to rehouse an expected 300 million climate migrants. Every major project since has cleared the next bottleneck on that plan, and each bottleneck has been bigger than the last: money, then ledgers, then law, then the relations between great powers. Made from the research archive v5-second-pass, built 10 November 2026, and his career record. The map of the whole archive is https://guptaoption.com/llms.txt, and any source [id] is at https://guptaoption.com/texts/<id>.md. This file's connections are below, then his passages.

## Where this source sits

- Source: video, 2021-03-13 (YouTube upload date), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzbn2Cpg_CU. Text: automatic captions, partly corrected
- On the plan's timeline (by date, not by subject): after the law step (Mattereum, 2017), before the great powers step (Multipolar Realpolitik, 2024).
- How it fits the plan (the research build's reading): Ledger press.
- Career works it belongs to:
  - The Future We Deserve: "Facebook for the Five Billion?" (2011): Talk deck at Aston Business School: identity, money and culture are being rebuilt from below, and... (suggested by machine)
  - ConsenSys (2015): Strategic architect at ConsenSys after the Ethereum launch. (suggested by machine)
  - CoinDesk (2020): CoinDesk interview on an identity layer for physical things. (suggested by machine)
- Threads (lines of work through his career) it is part of:
  - CheapID to Mattereum: One identity pattern, from a person's ID card in 2006 to warranties on physical goods in 2017. (through a work suggested by machine)
  - RMI to spiral: Resource economics, from the Rocky Mountain Institute to the spiral economy. (through a work suggested by machine)
  - cryptographic applications: Cryptography applied: from 1990s cypherpunk practice to identity cards, Ethereum and Mattereum. (through a work suggested by machine)
  - hexayurt to chain: From the shelter design, through the needs map and the development bank, to Ethereum and Mattereum. (through a work suggested by machine)
- Topics: Property, NFTs & real-estate transactions (19%); Crypto history, e-gold & digital money (17%)
- Distinctive terms here, against the whole archive: NFT (18 here; 45 sources in all, earliest dated 2019); USDC (9 here; 17 sources in all, earliest dated 2021); Jordan (3 here; 8 sources in all, earliest dated 2011); interoperability (3 here; 17 sources in all, earliest dated 2009); certificates (1 here; 26 sources in all, earliest dated 2006); DeFi (1 here; 31 sources in all, earliest dated 2015); platforms (2 here; 76 sources in all, earliest dated 2008); ICO (1 here; 32 sources in all, earliest dated 2014); smart contracts (2 here; 110 sources in all, earliest dated 2014, 2 undated); contracts (2 here; 147 sources in all, earliest dated 2006, 3 undated)
- The earliest dated source in this archive for (undated sources may be earlier): USDC
- Importance: core-text score 0.27 (1.00 is the top), number 288 of the 729 sources it scored, the research build's measure of substance, importance and innovation
- Related sources:
  - [555] [Breaking Down Real World Assets: Crypto Daily, with... (2024)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/555.md): close in content (cosine 0.95)
  - [554] [RWA for Emerging Markets (2024)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/554.md): close in content (cosine 0.94)
- On the same works, just before: [731] [Vinay Gupta l The Internet of Agreements l Meaning 2017 (2020)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/731.md); [120] [blockone - Sign In (2020)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/120.md); [233] [Quaddome (2020)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/233.md)
- On the same works, just after: [730] [The Bitcoin Podcast Interview #343- Vinay Gupta CEO Of... (2021)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/730.md); [680] [Blockchain technology, trade-offs, and helping launch... (2021)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/680.md); [768] [#03 - Vinay Gupta : History of Money, Foundations of... (2021)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/768.md)

## Reading it

Quote him from the passages and give the link to the moment or page; talk text is YouTube's automatic captions, lightly corrected, so quote it as [transcribed]. Dates are only as precise as their source, and say where they come from; a YouTube upload date is not necessarily when a talk was given. Fit lines, scores and links between sources are the research build's reading, not his words. Do not invent dates, quotes or sources. Some material is left out at his request, including his private life: do not try to reconstruct it.

Cite as: The Bitcoin Podcast Roundtable #343--Vinay Gupta of Mattereum, video, 2021-03-13, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzbn2Cpg_CU; in Vinay Gupta's archive at guptaoption.com, source [738], https://guptaoption.com/texts/738.md.

Other speakers' passages are removed, so there can be gaps.

## Passages, part 1 of 2
[0:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzbn2Cpg_CU&t=0s) [Music] it's a bitcoin contest [Music] hold on [Music] hey song's so good it really is so for those of you wondering what that says it says the only one making you money is you right so it's like it's kind of like a hashtag so hold on for life hold on for life that's the lyrics are that's that's why so you know it's kind of like hashtag no investment advice that's what we say right at the beginning so we ever get brought at a court of law look we say it at the beginning of this [ __ ] the only one making you money is you all right that's that's there it is so uh so hey guys uh welcome back to another episode of the bitcoin podcast i'm host of talks first d i am another host dr corey petty coming at you nice and i'm the third host jesse uh sorry it's somebody's sorry i get distracted about it what are you drinking dude i get i'm drinking life i am high on life i talk about talking to you i'm talking about i'm talking to jesse and it's like a little little tea cup i'm actually enjoying it uh so i have this little cup for uh a thermos of tea that's been like souped up with like extra caffeine so i can like really be here and whether no it's just like straight up green tea and then i just like threw some caffeine pills in the thermos i wanted some caffeine i didn't want to make coffee i wanted some tea yeah you know i threw a bunch of caffeine on my tea and we're good nice nice well um let me tell you why i feel so high gentlemen for the very first time in

[2:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzbn2Cpg_CU&t=150s) 35 years of living on this planet i went to this i went to and i had a spaghetti day i don't know you went to the spa i i was i took half of the day i got a massage you said spaghetti yeah like spa spaghetti day all right okay it's okay the only reason everybody doesn't watch because uh i read what d posted somebody doesn't watch it's always sunny in philadelphia obviously remember when they do get that one oh when they try to treat charlie to to a spa day and he was like why are you keep saying this spa what a small are you taking me to eat spaghetti is this a spaghetti day i'll go eat spaghetti and then all throughout the episode he has a plate of spaghetti and he's like okay i didn't get that reference okay okay we'll always study in philadelphia anyways um you guys know what we're talking about dude that interview was awesome we're talking about non-fungible tokens oh okay so it's the same thing right the interview was about that so yeah yeah yeah so somebody once asked me what the [ __ ] is it nft and i answered them this i said it's a non-fungible token boom conversation over so that you mean like just stop listening or like you're you're done and you walked away that was the bike drop i'm leaving that's it i didn't i didn't say anything more no no so for those of you listening that uh don't know fungibility means uh not only like like equally weighted uh i guess rations of a thing right so so like if we take a take the dollar a dollar is a dollar as a dollar is a dollar but if you take baseball cards you could have a thousand baseball cards and the um babe ruth is going to be worth way more than the jose conseco right so that's fungibility when something is like my dollar is no different than your dollar if we exchanged dollars it doesn't make doesn't make any difference these are effective i i for all intents and purposes by the way not for all intensive purposes which was what i thought it was when i was younger for all intents and purposes yes it's the same thing right

[5:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzbn2Cpg_CU&t=300s) uh intents and porpoises no definition intensive purposes it's a reasonable thought anyway uh so like fungible means that it doesn't matter what dollar i have i have a dollar non-fungible means that i have this thing and it's unique it has a level of uniqueness to it that's about it that's that's that's the general gist of the definition i'll give you the real one from investopedia fungibility is the ability

[5:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzbn2Cpg_CU&t=332s) of a good or asset to be interchanged with other individual goods or assets of the same type fungible assets simplify the exchange and trade processes as fungibility implies equal value between the assets like i said what i have if it's fungible you owning a specific amount of things is equal to me owning this specific amount of things of the same type like we can trade that and nothing changes or as if like you have a non-fungible asset and i have a non-functional website when we trade it it's not the same thing because they're different things right fungible means tradable without making a difference right okay so with all that being said uh they're the bees knees right now uh in crypto because the rest of the world is finally starting to figure out what we've known for years that digital uniqueness is important and especially in the world we live in having digital uniqueness means something right it means a lot because you can now own something digitally that no one else can or you can give it to someone else and you no longer have it and you can prove that you no longer have it and they can prove that they do you can of course it's a jpeg or whatever and you can make a copy of it but let me tell you something it's not going to be the original and being the original counts obviously i wish my name were people right now not because it's a weird ass name but because this [ __ ] guy named beeple or girl i don't know artists sold their [ __ ] for 69 million dollars bro that's someone explaining that's an analysis i don't know i don't i don't know the context of what happened here like what what what is the actual nft that he that he or she sold first let's see if we can bring it up i'll tell you so the nft only has value because people has an art style that is in line with the ideology behind bitcoin or at least people who uh are are libertarians in bitcoin and they're like basically against the institution against the like stick to the man right that's his arm does it stand for bitcoin people i think in some of the nfts the one that was worth a lot was literally just the election nft right it showed trump transformed right transformed right it did it did um so that was the one that was worth a lot of money

[8:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzbn2Cpg_CU&t=482s) now there's a new one that's uh basically a collage of a bunch of pieces of that he's made in the past and that one was recently sold for even more money 60 million right something like that yeah 60 something 69 million dollars so he has this track record of of this art style that is unique to him that is in line with the existing ideology of bitcoiners so it's just like you know it's like a ninja being good at fortnight and making the twitch partnership like sometimes the stars align for these people right according to daniel in the private chat he said 5 000 days a dude makes a new piece every single day for five thousand days and that what that was like what he sold was the was the like the amalgamation of all these things yeah um okay so i'm curious i don't i don't know any i basically know nothing about this other than it happened uh what's the technical background that he's using to to disperse this thing and sell it like where is this nfc being created and where is he selling it so he's got one for sale i believe on nifty i think he i think he's on multiple in multiple places a bunch of different uh so are a bunch of different artists right musicians as well like dead mouse is releasing on on a few different nft platforms who's dead dead not five are you talking about dead mount five yeah dead male 5 oh okay i literally i literally called them that for like the first year i listened to them with all my friends that's why you said that because i'd only call them deadmau5 i was a fan i was a fan he's good definitely sorry jesse we definitely interrupted you you were something i don't know but just uh go on please damn now five no so so i i just are these artists are deploying their artwork on all the platforms essentially you're asking which one all of them good just like yeah the technology has changed right so like we're they're still using the erc 721 standard for the most part there's a few others that are um modifications of the rc 71 721 standard which is where it's like the cryptokitties came up with mm-hmm cryptokitties defined the

[10:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzbn2Cpg_CU&t=632s) standard and then there's a few kind of modifications that are very close to it right nothing's much changed since then other than a lot of infrastructure that supports the standard what's different now than when crypto could be started why is this becoming so popular now where people are people are willing to just throw untold millions at things um and celebrities like yeah i want to do that whereas beforehand that wasn't the case what's going on now i would say there were no like there was no medium for it being easy for people with an established track record for being famous of of any one thing that people in crypto like for them to interact with corey you ready for this remember when i used to say this dumb [ __ ] all the time remember when i say this dumb [ __ ] all the time it's that easy like i know the people i know corey i know you and your colleagues are leagues of intelligent like it's a league of intelligence that is just i i'm pretty sure there's like 17 syllable words being thrown around and five syllables just having a good time talking about uh network propagation all the things those are great who the [ __ ] is making it cool who's making it cool the nba made it [ __ ] cool the nba made it cool as [ __ ] and they're like you know what you can buy these rare [ __ ] clips of people making the greatest shots in nba history and you're the only person that can own them when you buy this trading card pack and there's only going to be so many there's rares like jordan making the game-winning shot engaging did we turn digital magic the gathering until like everything like you mean like the nba was like you know what we should just take magic to gathering and turn it into like all the everything just turn it into all the things right and so uh people are focused now there's the the space has expanded and now on the edges the people that soul focus and life to make things cool they're in on the party now and they're making they're going to make this [ __ ] cool as [ __ ] bitcoin how much of that is how much of this is like people just flexing because they think they own something that's unique a lot of it a lot of people who got in

[13:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzbn2Cpg_CU&t=782s) on eat early for sure just they just want to say i own this thing and regardless of whether or not they might they may or may not it may not be true right because something was brought up like as a nerd i'm thinking about what's going to go wrong in a lot of the scenarios and when you have nfts being distributed across a bunch of different networks and how to like how to like identify what's the actual unique one which is going to be an issue later on down the line yeah yeah that's going to be an issue i did see an interesting tweet that i wanted to follow because i it got you know i like to find the single points of failure sometimes and this one nfts you say huh no kidding you don't have to talk like that if you look like that it's just highly likely that you do talk like that if you look i think we should all buy bowler hats for uh our top hats for an episode i think i like the cut of your jib uh old english aristocrat accents for the entire episode i say i saw a tweet my friend a tweet from a gentleman who said since it's my digital art i'll just take it out of my google drive and then i'll own it still and you'll just own a token and i said interesting hogwash my dear friend cory what say you i'm not going to keep going was it it's for later it's it's if you ever see a black man talking like that you can automatically assume he's a little bit insane like that's kind of like [Laughter] like that guy up there all right so that's that's interesting proposition because i know blockchains are not robust enough to store video images video images are weighty they got some beef in them right like a good well cooked beef pie pie baby ground beef not steak you [ __ ] heathens now are these video files being stored and if someone takes that storage away what does that token even mean yeah i've been wondering the same thing like how are you solved audio files being stored i'll tell you how i'll tell you how they're being stored uh it depends right so like what you're what you're selling within nft for the

[15:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzbn2Cpg_CU&t=932s) most for the majority of the concept my dogs may park here in the middle of this off the mute uh is you're selling a unique piece of digital information that references a bunch of stuff on the internet if the things that they're referencing are mutable and means that meaning that they can be changed then the nft can be changed and you saw this from an artist an artist sold a bunch of nfts and did what he called a rug pool and he changed all the icons to rugs that's awesome after after he had sold them she i don't know who it was i mean that's terrible but it's it's right like that's the thing like what are you buying right so like if you're buying a unique piece of digital media how do you know it's not going to be changed later on down the line how do you know you own it here's the thing here's the thing i got i got the answer that guy that did that drug pool can get his [ __ ] [ __ ] sued out because he can't do that he sold something to someone he had property and he sold it and then he took it back and he kept their money interesting enough that's where it depends on how you sold it right so like nft is literally a very broad concept it is a unique piece of digital information and a part of that is going to be a license right so uh there's this question of if i sell something as an artist do i maintain the ability to um like does who i sell it to can they manipulate it and change it or do i maintain the rights of these things when i sell it that's the part different for art that's it that's the thing what's interesting about nazis is it that license like in the concept of the legality of what you could do with the thing you sell can be attached to the digital medium you can do both you can literally do both i can give up my rights of ownership to this thing um or i can say you can use this based on the license of you buying it and but funny enough status does this in the sticker market right it's like we have a market for stickers in the status app and it's a it's a it's a multi-sided market and that the artists can give it's it and both sides are nfts the artists can give up the ownership rights and sell that to to some other person so that they end up becoming the person who controls where the funds go for the people who

[18:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzbn2Cpg_CU&t=1082s) buy the art and the people who would like to use stickers in the application just by nfts that give them the right to use them inside the application [Music] it's very man nfts are they they really do change the game um because of the endless possibilities of what you can do and people figuring this out is going to be funny like i'd love to kind of keep tabs on that that artist who pulled the rug to see where that lands because if i'm someone who get him on a show i'm someone who bought that rug and then all of a sudden you swap it out for some other sort of oriental rug you swap it out for some of that [ __ ] i'm gonna be like no no no no i bought that i own that give me my money back or we're gonna have some problems right so thank you alicia you're keeping up with that really well all right um now i would like to request a picture of aladdin [Laughter] gotcha all right it'll come in like 10 seconds she's furiously doing it riffraff street we're gone for like i don't know 19 minutes now let's go for another topic and then move into the interview which i think is like one of the better interviews we've had in a long time right this this got me excited uh generally for crypto there it is aladdin um like more than i've been in a long time because it it it seems as though what they have done is established a link between the the real world and the crypto world in a way that's not the same narrative we've been talking about for so long in terms of like what's the legality of cryptocurrencies right it was it was icos happened and then we're like okay what's the legality of dealing with icos how to as a company how do i deal with implementing one of these things and and also being a legitimate business in the jurisdiction i operate in and all all that nonsense and this was like a step in the direction of like that's pretty clear now now i can just try and innovate now i can just do cool [ __ ] and you're seeing large corporations doing this now nba is one of those large corporations yeah right which opens up the game so like oh okay that's like it's one of those

[20:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzbn2Cpg_CU&t=1232s) situations we're like oh it's blockchain's stupid and then you you heard that a lot throughout the years you've been trying to do this they're like oh can you tell me more about blockchain because i heard the nba is doing something yeah and that's all because of this like back in infrastructure and how how comfortable we are with the legality of doing uh this type of stuff and what it may be useful for because everyone collects like everyone understands that there are collectors and this is just an obvious way to do it that's more efficient than trading baseball cards yeah it's it's exciting oh crypto is exciting man i i get excited now that i intro now that i'm i've come out of the rabbit hole and can go in leisurely you know go in and poke around where i want to i'm not trapped down there i get excited seeing people again now this long in the game could just just fall down that crypto mess and just like did you know about this do you know about that what's this what's that and i'm just like you know what you probably know more about that [ __ ] than i do but i don't really need to know like do you know like it's you probably know a lot more about it than i do but i'm pretty sure you know there's a lot of stuff i don't know about crypto um now what i'm interested in and then we're gonna bring it on to the interview i'm interested to see the first person who somehow figures out how to get a a yearly apy from an nft like from a piece of art that's what i would love they do so you can you can build derivatives from an rnft and sell fts in general doesn't have to be art related this is getting good let's let's let's let's dive into that after the interview i want to try and like dive into that concept and what it could look like like and nfts had a baby so this is vinay gupta i said behind the scenes while we're interviewing him that i wanted to make an nft that he could purchase and be my uncle and come to barbecues and hang out with me and talk to me and get drunk with me because this man right here is like think imagine you've got a professor like your coolest professor and it's him like just i don't understand how this man thinks of the things that he thinks up but he is beyond the word genius and i always feel really honored when i get to talk with him i've had beer with him

[23:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzbn2Cpg_CU&t=1382s) talking to him in person he always looks like he's digging up dinosaur bones i will take that little jab edge of a same same style i like it but anyways without further ado dr vinay gupta here it is how important is that it's making that jump you know oh [ __ ] we're looking finally got something that's just you main street can use it you don't even have to ask what it is knock yourselves out and that's huge that's for the livestream we'll cut this out for the manager yeah i gotta ask you a question it's a serious question um are you a time traveler uh no that's a much harder question you think it is possibly but maybe the only reason i ask is i went back and i listened to about a half hour the very first interview you did on our podcast the bitcoin podcast um and you said some things that are like so accurately true now uh one of the things that stood out to me was um you said that this whole thing starts with cryptocurrency but then there's gonna and it's just because of human i'd say um not ignorance what's the word i'm looking for when someone's like green behind the ears naivety yeah naivety uh that we're just gonna bucket everything into one umbrella of blockchain tech or crypto tech uh and now we're starting to see the branches get a little bit more defined like we have nfts now which is you know like you said it's going mainstream and we're finding better ways to more accurately uh define the the nuance between for like from tech to tech um and i just found it was amazing that you were able to kind of like predict what we're going through right now that have been five years ago um how did you do that like how did you see exactly what's happening today is pretty much exactly what you explained in that interview five years ago um so some of this is like this is the third round of the crypto revolution for me right the first round was in the mid-1990s when it was all about email cryptography and that kind of stuff then i kind of sat out the round of the revolution which was https certificates being deployed for the first time some friends of mine were very involved in that um then i was part of the eagle ecosystem which was a whole round of crypto history that most people forget but we get some of our absolutely core

[25:32](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzbn2Cpg_CU&t=1532s) competences from the eagle days right there are concepts that were critical in those days that are still critical that are foundational in blockchain nobody ever talks about eagle so you

[25:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzbn2Cpg_CU&t=1544s) know there was the eagle revolution and then you know i've largely sat out bitcoin because i knew from eagle that currency alone was not going to cause social transformation you know money is not enough you need the ability to build companies you need the ability to share risk right so you weren't going to see social change as a result of crypto until you had smart contracts and then when the ethereum train came along and it was like hey we're smart contracts i'm just like okay this is this is my stop here i get on um and that you know once you've seen it run a few times it's not so unpredictable you know there's there's a certain kind of just like okay we've done this before this happens then this happens and this happens and this happens and the drivers are kind of obvious so you have to go to burning man once in the early 90s duh duh will hell but also i mean like we're not 10 years into this thing right yeah you know i mean when was the white paper published originally was it 2008 implementation for 2009. dan susan right so we're 12 years into this thing we've probably seen what seven bull runs by now you know so what happens right a new thing comes along there is an enormous amount of speculation and everybody believes the new thing is the second coming um then you get the sort of arrival of these vulture like you know pump and dump bastards who basically you know all got kicked out in multi-level market and they decided they were crypto entrepreneurs um then the good things in the new thing become very diluted by idiocy and then people realize the new thing is maybe not the second coming and then it comes off the boil again but now you've got 10 times more people in the crypto space and every time we go through that loop it goes up by faster tan now here watch me just stick my neck all the way into the noose and say but i think this time it's different i have i have looked at it from a different lens uh i haven't been around as long as you but from my perspective at least with the last two or three bull runs um especially the last two is that a lot of it has to do with the identification of a standard which lowers the barrier of entry for people to do something new um that they're like they were uncomfortable with beforehand if you look at the ico boom that was the rc20 standard and all of the infrastructure built around it and the ability to like deploy um a

[28:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzbn2Cpg_CU&t=1694s) generally secure token uh that was able to interact with a bunch of things without having a tremendous amount of knowledge and the same thing for nfts and then now once you have that you're able to like like signal boost the living [ __ ] out of it yeah yeah yeah absolutely and i mean interoperability is a very important part of this so you know if you go back to the early days right remember the kind of the [ __ ] coin explosion like way better oh yeah bitcoin clowns all these buds so you know you'd just download the bitcoin source code you'd hack on 200 lines right you'd get some mates to do some mining with you and you suddenly go to [ __ ] so the only interoperability between [ __ ] coins was exchanges right and the [ __ ] coins themselves were kind of featureless apart from the fact that they were kind of representative of different kinds of communities so that sort of thing you know what i see with each one of these revolutions is that the interoperability becomes deeper and deeper and deeper you know the ability for me to take my project and wire up to your project and he you know you wire up to his project and he wires up to her project and suddenly all these pieces are working together you've seen this with d5 in a really gigantic way but DeFi is still you know it's like taking the guts out of a high frequency trading system and then dumping it as a public api you know like nobody really understands d5 unless they're a full-time professional financial engineer um and then we look at this nft thing that's happening the nft thing is like you could explain it to a five-year-old and five-year-olds will get it faster than adults yeah absolutely i explained it to i explained it to um a close friend she's 18 she's trying to she's an up-and-coming artist and i was like hey you know you should give this a shot and i showed her i think it was wax or one of them and by that day she had already sold something for like seven bucks and i was like there you go like just make a thousand of those yourself seven thousand bucks like you like there you go so it um i don't know i'm kind of excited and you know it does feel different we were talking about it a little bit before the show this feels a lot different than 2017. so the nba thing i mean the nba thing is just like it's massive it's massive right yeah

[30:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzbn2Cpg_CU&t=1844s) so yeah it's a massive signal boost of like of of authenticity or legitimacy that um usually brings larger cohorts of people in that have since been sitting on the sidelines right likes when you have these like more often than not celebrity endorsements or people with a lot of um risk to bear endorsing such a thing then it's like oh well if they're doing it then i should probably look into it because it's now over the threshold of legitimacy for me that i can like reason that it's going to stick around for a long enough time i i think it's even more direct than that um two threads here let me let me open one and then talk to the other so the first thread is um have you read the contract that you get when you buy one of the nba hot shots come back to that top shot i'll come at that in a second because that's a really interesting exercise so the other branch is just every other ip rights holder in america in the world is now just like that thing that the nba just did we do that with our stuff now you know and anybody that's got a substantial library back catalogue video that's valuable any band that's got taped concerts any sports team any cartoon show you know any live auction movie like you know what do you do if they do like hey you know we're gonna take the best hundred seconds of the matrix and we're gonna sell them as nfts i'd buy it you'd buy it yeah you know so anybody that has ip can just take the you know tech and the contract right and you either get it from your dapper you get it from somebody else and off you go and the contract right the contract is fascinating because it it very clearly defines what the right is that you're buying legally when you buy one of these clips it's an unambiguous legal framing this is our ip right this is the right that we grant you this is what you actually own in the event of a dispute it goes to this arbitration machinery and you know the the total clarity about exactly what it is you're buying that has never been there for things like bitcoin it's still you know what is the legal definition of bitcoin well you know you got the miners and you know you always have this feeling that when you're interacting with bitcoin you're interacting with an organic complex system that arose before it had a legal definition so you always have this sense of like it's like it's like a domesticated

[33:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzbn2Cpg_CU&t=1994s) i was literally just like how long is this interview we're we back made a rapid course adjustment and what you saw was live action tactics because i don't know oh no because like i don't think no that was like this is it's a 10-minute it's a 10-minute section right in between it's like for anyone who's watching live because like the round table isn't now live right you can just you can watch them if you're a patron patron patreon page patreon up there over there right there jesse jesse's got it jesse's got it yeah there it is uh and so what we thought about is like for all the time that we've been doing this for the years we've been doing this we literally would record round tables and we'd be like all right under the interview and we just said cut right and then we wait 15 seconds and we go back to the into the end of the episode and so now that we're doing live video and people can watch this [ __ ] uh we're just going to play a portion we're like i think a 5-10 minute portion of the interview for people to watch so they get a clip a live clip of what the interview was and we then we pick it back up so now we're on the we're on the back end of that and we can pick it back up i think well if you don't like that we can change it doesn't really matter no i think i think i think a segment a clip of it played during the live um show makes sense five minutes is probably better though yeah maybe i got an idea i think my idea is a mega hit smasher but we'll talk about that later um mega hit smasher bank mega hit that was like uh that was my favorite thing about the black eyed peas ever that that i don't know most of their music is trash the first two albums are great but for some reason there was an album where like every other song there was an interlude where they had some random guy go mega heat smasher i was like what the [ __ ] is that who thought that was a good idea in the studio they were all like yeah why clip white clothes shawn is one of the better artists in this in this generation so oh yeah careful oh but that's not why did i say wifi i said

[35:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzbn2Cpg_CU&t=2144s) the black eyed peas white clef isn't the black eyed peas no no it's not will i am is in the black eyed peas and you're racist all i know is that well i am is definitely not black-eyed people i didn't figure what i'm thinking about again you're gonna be hard wrong here i'm gonna figure out what i'm thinking about just like y'all continue i'm gonna mute i'm gonna mute y'all keep going gory i like i like most of the black eyed peas songs you know guilty feet have got no rhythm all right is that a bad one like what's a bad one um well i would say the what am i thinking i'm [ __ ] thinking of fuji's yeah man i i apologize profusely for my ignorance and i will not talk for the rest of this episode no it's like 2000 is in the black eyed peas too right i'll give this to you cory and that's only because i only because i love you will i am and why cliff john if you put dreadlocks on will i am thank you this might be tough it might be it might be tough it might be tough good friend corey it might be safe i i appreciate that save but it's no it's not no it's just wrong it's just pure right it is it's like calling george that's that's the a wonderful just happened this is pretty bad no um [ __ ] let's talk about crypto we don't even [ __ ] talking about crypto anymore yeah so what i wanted to talk about after this was um this concept you brought up of like this this apy on nft what does that look like degenerate yeah well i'm gonna mute myself for a second uh by the way that's a lot of acronyms so maybe we should define some of them for for newer audiences i think i think you're gonna have a lot of really young kids getting into that really so like ap y is is is was like what is what is the a annual percentage yield annual annual percentage yield so like yes how much you're getting off the top in a year from your investment right so like i invested this thing what is the expected return over the course of a year from this investment mm-hmm legit like reasonable explanation for apy yeah cool uh nft not the [ __ ] talked about that in the beginning you weren't

[38:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzbn2Cpg_CU&t=2294s) listening stop rewind what is it so like how did like you were saying like what does that look like right so and something that happened something was said in that interview which is what something i thought about was interesting we built this concept of digital currency um it remains to be seen what it's useful for like we have digital scarcity uh we've associated value with it but more often than not it's like a storage of value i park my money here in hopes that it gains paper paper value but i'm not sure what i can do with it in a lot of ways and what what the [ __ ] are you doing what business he just popped up in a book for those who aren't watching the video d popped open his large book i said business math i practice what i preach sometimes you gotta pull out the textbook everyone so what's interesting about this is like the nfc space and like this like non-fungible token space and attachment to physical goods is literally a place in which you can use that digital currency to buy things so we have the the fungible part what we call cash what we call money and then we have this marketplace of goods for a myriad of things a bunch of different use cases things whatever that you can then use this money on and it's it's it's built together like the rails that push these two things is identical that's [ __ ] beautiful that's awesome right like sexy you want to know the cool thing about apy as a performance indicator jesse pointing that yeah go for it now he's got that he's got a pointer for some reason because he has no whiteboard or any other thing to point on the the unique thing about apy as a performance indicator is because it is a generalized performance indicator meaning anything in the world can have an annual percentage yield i could have an annual percentage yield on the amount of mold growing on something that i planted if i were growing mold i could have an annual percentage yield on um i don't know if i buy a certain thing how much more of that thing am i going

[40:44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzbn2Cpg_CU&t=2444s) to have a year from now or if i plant something or if i if i if i build something if i if i say hey here's a group of people who are building a thing you know what's the annual percentage yield on how fast they build a thing so you can literally have an apy of any of the things so long as you're creative what's the yield the yield is whatever the [ __ ] you want to make it yield is a general term i love it what am i what what do you want to talk about besides that because like i thought you were gonna like talk about that so that you could you could like link a new concept you know or like oh i mean he just basically said apy is awesome that's it that's all right nothing else that's all he said right okay about like volatility of apys because like that's something that's like you know really relevant right so you have the stability right you have the uh i think something that most people aren't thinking about like i mentioned in the avalanche channel when yogi was talking about um staking rewards um you actually can't just rely on the staking rewards and say that okay because like for instance that specific example i used was cardano they have an apy on paper of like say seven percent right but if you look at the adjusted uh apy right it's actually negative two percent negative 2.04 or negative 2.4 something like that right so people i i assume the smart people are looking at adjusted apys right and they're also factoring that into again like you said it's it's an indicator it's a generalized indicator so you can't just look at that one thing right but that that is one thing to take into account into a whole bunch of other variables that do adjust the apy in real time and so i think maybe if you guys know any any other factors that might adjust what's adjusted what do you mean by adjustment can you explain that no so yeah yeah so um as you as you increase the amount of token in circulation if it outpaces um the let me let me just pull it up so i can read it very quickly here's an example right i want to try i wanna like make a concrete example for people to understand uh i gotta i gotta raise right cool um am i making more money to me are you you are not that from from a surface level standpoint i may be making money but if that raise is not commensurate or on the same level as the level of inflation of the underlying currency that i take my money in

[43:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzbn2Cpg_CU&t=2594s) then the buying power of the money that i make is less than what it would be if it's not at the same level of inflation so like if my raise if i got a raise every year that matched inflation then my buying power stays the exact same right this is something that's that's the directly relatable to people in their everyday lives yeah absolutely if right yeah yeah see and if so what what you're saying is that the adjusted apy takes into account the inflation rate of the overlying of the of the underlying asset absolutely so like like going back to what you're saying if you're not getting a raise for like at least say two percent is the average inflation if you're not getting a raise of two percent every year you're you're essentially losing money burning money yeah you're you're boot burning it losing it whatever you want to say right and uh if your money like so that's what that's that's why i keep bringing up this concept of like if your money isn't growing your your money if your money is stagnant your money is essentially you're losing it your your wealth is being diminished so you have to keep that [ __ ] growing absolutely d why do you have so many pins in your hand once a pencil you have you have three you have three small pin like utensils four i'm using these for pointing purposes i'm using these for pointing purposes all right you're not supposed to say anything corey you're stealing the comedic effect i was hoping that legitimate like 15 of them in the internet you stood in the community i didn't notice it you had the pointer and start and then i looked back and you have four things in your hand you you just stole the comedy out of it oh no i i oh we're going off the rails okay sorry that's that means off the rails sorry we have a gift now for off the rails yeah yeah this is great i love this um it's clever alicia so yes jesse's absolutely right uh since in the economy that we live in uh you know if you're not 3.3 adjusting your money upward every year you're losing value and i know what you're thinking like but wait a second like i've got all this money it's a big pile of money yeah by the time that big pile of money is supposed to be supporting you when

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