# FutureRant - Vinay Gupta Pt 4/4 - "Cypherpunk to Cyberpunk"

> One source from the archive of Vinay Gupta's work at guptaoption.com, as plain text for AI agents: [679]. Vinay Gupta, exponential humanitarian. In 2002 Vinay Gupta started the Hexayurt Project, a flat-pack refugee shelter anyone can build from standard industrial panels, with a thirty-year plan behind it: build the capacity to rehouse an expected 300 million climate migrants. Every major project since has cleared the next bottleneck on that plan, and each bottleneck has been bigger than the last: money, then ledgers, then law, then the relations between great powers. Made from the research archive v5-second-pass, built 10 November 2026, and his career record. The map of the whole archive is https://guptaoption.com/llms.txt, and any source [id] is at https://guptaoption.com/texts/<id>.md. This file's connections are below, then his passages.

## Where this source sits

- Source: video, 2016-08-31 (YouTube upload date), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTsrE63u6OM. Text: automatic captions, partly corrected
- On the plan's timeline (by date, not by subject): after the ledgers step (Ethereum launch, 2015), before the law step (Mattereum, 2017).
- How it fits the plan (the research build's reading): Ledger strand.
- Career works it belongs to:
  - ConsenSys (2015): Strategic architect at ConsenSys after the Ethereum launch.
  - The Future We Deserve: "Facebook for the Five Billion?" (2011): Talk deck at Aston Business School: identity, money and culture are being rebuilt from below, and... (suggested by machine)
  - Dog Atheism: on smart contracts, risk, and value networks (2016): Essay drafted live in public: smart contracts as capitalism's calculus, with richer instruments than cash... (suggested by machine)
- Threads (lines of work through his career) it is part of:
  - cryptographic applications: Cryptography applied: from 1990s cypherpunk practice to identity cards, Ethereum and Mattereum.
  - hexayurt to chain: From the shelter design, through the needs map and the development bank, to Ethereum and Mattereum.
  - CheapID to Mattereum: One identity pattern, from a person's ID card in 2006 to warranties on physical goods in 2017. (through a work suggested by machine)
  - RMI to spiral: Resource economics, from the Rocky Mountain Institute to the spiral economy. (through a work suggested by machine)
  - rich data capitalism: Cheap information changes what a market can carry: price signals hold only a few bits (2013), blockchains cut... (through a work suggested by machine)
- Topics: Equity crowdfunding & venture capital (33%); Property, NFTs & real-estate transactions (14%)
- Distinctive terms here, against the whole archive: proof of stake (13 here; 17 sources in all, earliest dated 2014); The DAO (8 here; 13 sources in all, earliest dated 2016); DAO (10 here; 23 sources in all, earliest dated 2014); proof of work (3 here; 10 sources in all, earliest dated 2014); Cyberpunk (4 here; 21 sources in all, earliest dated 2011); equity crowdfunding (3 here; 14 sources in all, earliest dated 2014); Capital Partners (2 here; 7 sources in all, earliest dated 2002, 1 undated); Cypherpunks (2 here; 15 sources in all, earliest dated 2014); PGP (2 here; 16 sources in all, earliest dated 2011); distributed manufacturing (1 here; 6 sources in all, earliest dated 2011)
- Importance: core-text score 0.27 (1.00 is the top), number 281 of the 729 sources it scored, the research build's measure of substance, importance and innovation
- Related sources:
  - [680] [Blockchain technology, trade-offs, and helping launch... (2021)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/680.md): same career work: ConsenSys
  - [119] [Consensys - Building the Era of Decentralized Finance (2015)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/119.md): same career work: ConsenSys
- On the same works, just before: [719] [Cyberpunk to blockchains: Cultural history of... (2016)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/719.md); [7] [Capital Partners transcript, August 2016 (2016)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/7.md); [763] [FutureRant - Vinay Gupta Pt 2/4 - "Survival & Politics" (2016)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/763.md)
- On the same works, just after: [276] [Dubai trip notes September 2016 (2016)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/276.md); [275] [1 (2016)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/275.md); [272] Interview with Rob Knight (hexayurt vc) and Dominic Tarr... (2016)

## Reading it

Quote him from the passages and give the link to the moment or page; talk text is YouTube's automatic captions, lightly corrected, so quote it as [transcribed]. Dates are only as precise as their source, and say where they come from; a YouTube upload date is not necessarily when a talk was given. Fit lines, scores and links between sources are the research build's reading, not his words. Do not invent dates, quotes or sources. Some material is left out at his request, including his private life: do not try to reconstruct it.

Cite as: FutureRant - Vinay Gupta Pt 4/4 - "Cypherpunk to Cyberpunk", video, 2016-08-31, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTsrE63u6OM; in Vinay Gupta's archive at guptaoption.com, source [679], https://guptaoption.com/texts/679.md.

Other speakers' passages are removed, so there can be gaps.

## Passages
[0:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTsrE63u6OM&t=0s) we didn't get a chance to get your opinion on what how you would define the political organization in Ethereum what's your impression there okay so we've got the foundation the foundation is the thing which is getting the majority of the code written but we've also got a whole bunch of different clients which are maintained by different people so de facto we've got a reasonable degree of decentralization in the robot of implementations which are not paid by for the foundation ah ah you know is that enough depends what your threat models certainly the Daleks leadership has been exceptionally good for getting things done right you know there's a kind of hard burn phase of beginning of this process where it just required superhuman effort superhuman commitment and an enormous kind of inspirational purity and Vitalik knocked all of us to how the bulb are which is why we have the fury and whether Vitalik continues to be luminous at that level or whether he you know takes a desk job at university puts his fear becomes an academic computer science professor you know we have no idea about Vitalik is going to do with the rest of his life so the idea that he's going to stay ours you know an enormously luminous forward site in wunderkind you know that's clearly not gonna happen he's either going to mature at a massive political leader on the model of saved linus torvalds or maybe the mosque or he's going to take an academic computer science list and he's going to go kind of off into that direction or he's gonna wind up doing something unexpected he could go at any direction so I think that it's importantly we don't chain ourselves to the idea that fatale is going to be the same man he was a 20 at 25 or 50 clearly he's going to change that will change via theory political system around him even if nothing else changes so you know we'll see what about mass and similarly you know you'd think we'd be able to build buddy tools for managing these platforms he's using these platforms you know yeah they rapin yeah you would think right i mean the thing with the simplest to do is one vote per coin right cred if we simple to do a cryptographic level it's completely objective whether it's fair or not depends on who you ask but you could do one vote per coin essentially tax-raising when you demo rush the entire currency by you know a tenth of a percent a year and that pays for the

[2:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTsrE63u6OM&t=150s) development funding and then you've got a priority queue of things that people vote on one coin perdu you know provoke and you could knock out in the theory and theoretically in a matter of months like there's no reason that I can think of where that could meet up maybe you need a State John or something about make efficient of that much feeling good but it really seems like the kind of thing you do and so it that seems like the next obvious move like I can't see why wouldn't do that internal

[2:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTsrE63u6OM&t=178s) governance for crypto currency systems well i think is it that whole point of these systems maybe I mean I can't imagine why you wouldn't want to do it that way yeah sort of seems like uh yeah yeah yeahs smart contracts it's kind of a maybe a logical conclusion there well I mean it would solve all the problems that we have but we can't get any scientific Florida to governance on the other hand what do we do if only two percent of our people vote and then you wind up with a bunch of damn a goober ask climb to read running the systems right those were some of the some of the critiques of the DAO before it was even exploited god I mean you know just after he just he had environment or Donald Trumpkin naturally arise you really question the integrity of the human race hey you know Hitler and plenty of plenty of guys out there already did it last century and Stalin Mao Rick Astley yeah yeah the list goes on Gabriel and Vinay yeah secretly vampire okay let's talk about the guts

[4:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTsrE63u6OM&t=241s) of Ethereum a little bit or spending more and definitely or not a vampire ork o yourn ork oh then I'm not worried about it works I'm finding the works it's all good shows all right what's do best all right so um you know Ethereum has been pooh-poohing proof of work which is the method that bitcoin uses to basically secure its transactions and yes prove that you expended the computing power to calculate the transactions on the network and of course you have to use electricity to do this and people decry it for its waste well supporters say hey that's the price of you know having a system that is by security say and cerium would love to move to a proof of stake system as soon as next year i believe and the researchers in the foundation and elsewhere have been coming up with ideas white papers for using a different system proof of stake now I'm proof of stake one of the simple versions of proof of stake would be everybody who holds you know some of the crypto tokens such as ether or Bitcoin could i'm not in Bitcoin but it's such as ether could be randomly chosen to sign blocks and that way you wouldn't have a competition of expending ever greater power to compete with each other to receive new currency that the system creates first of all my question is for you how is proof of stake different from passive property so proof of stake could be implemented one of I don't know maybe forward us different ways right oh one extreme you have essentially jury duty right where it's an expense that you take home and if you don't carry that expense your college avoided on approach all the way through to these kind of plutocratic oligarchical systems where they weren't mistake that you put up turns into more essentially interest payments and there are what are the mechanisms you could build in between so there are many different political umbria within the general bucket called proof of stake um and I am Oh sketched out my proof of stake you know the fundamental computer science problems you need to solve to get a proof of stake algorithm which is truly stable

[6:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTsrE63u6OM&t=391s) are very substantial and I would quite like to see that stuff tried at a small scale on somebody else's system breaks firstly for a while there's a few out coins yeah there's no surgeries yeah yeah there's these little things right you know I like to see something that was seriously land on the but there wasn't if you're and you know let's just sorry because the fear that I have is that their systems are so complicated that you wind up with some blindingly obvious moment of hindsight you figure out just after the volume against the hammer drive the system like oh my god were bleeding coins what the hell is hot but it's somebody's like yeah I just noticed a problem with our proof of stake map ah because prove I mean the thing about proof of work is although proof of work is just an appalling huh it's an appalling hack that a five-year-old can validate okay maybe a very bright and five year olds but you know her attacker could go through the logic to make before work on a whiteboard in the course of an hour and completely understand what is happening in the system right the proof of stake stuff i mean i am not a dumb guy I couldn't tell you how the hell Caspar worked you know I need to work for weeks before I wrap my head around that at at the end of that time period whether I could repeat it to another human being in the way that made sense there would be 5050 so that tells me that there is a vast possibility to the thing going wrong something because of the complexity so the political impact of having proof of stake work is enormously positive in almost all scenarios but the implementation risk of doing it then cocking is gruesome um so

[8:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTsrE63u6OM&t=490s) coming back to the political impact like I was saying how has proved mistake different from passive property which you are decrying in a tweet well look so the bottom line is that an idealist level it's very clear the property is murder at least beyond a certain minimum threshold we offer it in a world for 20 million people die from lack of property and then react as if property as an inherent human right except for the people who don't have so there's no real way around that right as soon as you establish hard property rights as axiomatic inside a society you accept the people that's what property is or is not for most people being run over by cars well it turns out if you don't have a stupid system where each pedestrians and cars in the same space they stop getting run over we don't need people in ours to be dying for lack of property the fact that we destroyed that it's a natural system it's just always been that way and always should be that way is as stupid as a country which is legal way if we decide that you know rape a state of nature and therefore it shouldn't be illegal it's as stupid as deciding the poverty is stay in nature we should a lot of people start with AF right starving to death is a stupid a weighted dice has ever been imagined and in a culture that has decided that we won't change the way the human nature operates the idea that we change it for physical violence that we change it for sexual violence that we change it from vaccination we wouldn't get rang to eradicate poverty is ridiculous so you know I view the world as being literally Jenna Seidel against people who are poor because they die by a you know in the millions and nobody seems to act as if this is their problem we act as if it's just not at all the people would die of starvation in the world which is producing twice as much food as it require so you know it's very hard for me to do that anything other than decides that the problem in that system is that we decide that a hungry person is not permitted to take food but a fat person is because of some token called Molly that either Harvard or not it's insane right so it coming from an absolute perspective this is how it is on the other hand when you get into the simple practical details of how you implement some particular piece of software frankly who cares right you know there's political idealism and they just get the goddamn job done and in terms of the Ethereum systems and you know if I believe that we were architect in the system which was immediately going to bind up a billion users and it was going to change the entire face in the future you were right I probably

[10:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTsrE63u6OM&t=640s) much more fussy about this but I start to think of all this phase is being prototyping prototype in prototype and so maybe I'm not being as careful as I shoot because if we did have an enormous sudden success with proof of stake you know if Rufus take from the foundation of a scale blockchain and the scaled function became a single moment pen yrf retractor right it would really matter whether don't know we had profits based on the state keys so that such as something I need to think about more detail okay

[11:05](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTsrE63u6OM&t=665s) call claim the that you were a cyberpunk or in that community in the 90s the cypherpunks were a group of computer science enthusiasts you might say that as you pointed out believed in creating using cryptography to create freedom you might say recently you said the cypherpunks failed to create public works what gems of that so a good example is public key infrastructure so we had a couple of things like the pgp key servers and things like that and like he used to operate but we never really built out large-scale key distribution architectures we never really solved the problem pgp being hard to use and we never bought the bottom of the whole mess which is x.509 certificates and so we never got into position where we were able to gear after year after year build and field great new technology we kind of got some things that worked and they became infrastructure but we didn't continue a build out on those until we'd built the rest of the systems and a lot of that is because we didn't have any new mechanisms for moving money so the hope is that we've got all this can you know smart contract infrastructure and kicking around and we ought to be able to use to maintain large public works projects yeah [Music] it'd be interesting to see how we wind up doing the idea that you could basically have beverage in the currency where you slightly devalue the currency every year and uses the photo and build an instructor s it necessary to maintain the currency is essentially what people hoping will happen with Bitcoin when the mining roads go down and the transaction fees go up so it's the same kind of thinking but you do user explicitly fuel in the political system that also build the next set features it is all extremely complicated well I think that's a good explanation which is basically they couldn't do public works because they didn't have money yet yeah and once you've got money you come to public work so that's something that's typical to taxation and West people are very good about paying for the stuff to use it so as well solve problems yeah I wonder if a transition to an asset bait sort of economic system would conceivably change the incentive structure so that people were more proactive with donation and then spending their their money in a way rather than being an assist state of lack and they

[13:35](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTsrE63u6OM&t=815s) might be in there might be a general move toward an abundance state where things are funded crowd funded and supported donated to a little bit more it's conceivable yes absolutely absolutely so

[13:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTsrE63u6OM&t=830s) moving on to your work situation you are at a company called consensus can you describe briefly what that is and what you do there well so I was a strategic architect a consensus and which was basically pretty much a continuation of what I've been doing for the foundation but this time instead of spending most my time talking to the public spending what I'm talking to companies you know what is ether you know what is the Ethereum how does it all work how could we potentially build for you I then spent an enormous amount of time and energy setting up a project with the UK government called challenger business program so the UK government has a really really really ambitious project running out UK Department of Business Innovation and Skills to try on you know main streams for our contract into the UK economy as an economic growth area for the UK and there they've got a document kicking around which lists the kinds of things that they're interested in discussing and it's very very visionary and we really you know heartening to see from you know your g8 nations day and so I'm very very happy with that um armed I have recently spun up a new project which is going to be based in the UK and we'll just get a kind of extend interview directions yes I wanted to get to that next so let's talk about it recently you announce this project the temporary name is hexayurt guy capital partners I really hope it we could call the thing molds for mobs but apparently it was a little too close to a trademark so we saw happening maybe or clubs ah well something about my stores I'll email you my orc dictionary and this company aims to treat startups as financial instruments that transition into businesses using I cos its initial crypto offerings to well in the cases where it sleep little program yeah of course yeah and and whatever other systems for for funding to build or for equity rather to build moonshot platforms that start that start outlandish and become commonplace yeah that's a really good way of treating entrepreneurs as scarce but capital as abundant and to deal with the randomness of prediction and develop businesses at the interfaces of new technology sectors

[16:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTsrE63u6OM&t=980s) such as drones blockchain AI ARV rmr solar and renewables and 3d printing you recently wrote on reddit you have to make capitalism work a doo da OS have the potential to solve the economic conundrum of distribution of ownership okay

[16:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTsrE63u6OM&t=1000s) so let's start at the beginning the this lot material for people take it so the basic thesis of this kind of extra capital partners thing is that if you start using you know kind of proper portfolio theory type approaches to you know high-risk ventures like you know early stage companies you get a very different attitude to the risk of implied right and you also are in a position where you know a company that's got a year's worth of development on it a couple really good ideas are quite well fleshed out armed you know 20,000 interested test users but you know no monetization no billing none of that stuff is yet though something along those kind of lines is closer to being a financial instrument that a company right it's a pocket of more or less pure risk and that might eventually turn into a company but until you've actually got a business or tab ilysm or you're taking payments from customers and covering your costs you're not really a company per se you know you're this thing kind of sliding down into the ground on a trajectory but it's not until you kind of level out that you're a company and it's not until you begin to kind of laughs laughs that you're actually a success so I think that this notion that you're basically building more or less pure risk instruments that allow people to you know explore ideas that potentially bring completely new kind of endeavors into the world but that are not sort of bound by the same logic of say a small or medium-sized enterprise makes a lot of sense two on the DAO side to be honest my hope was that we could fund a whole bunch of the people that had hoped to get money from the DAO with alternate funding streams because there was a kind of really good thinking about stuff that people want me to build using the money from the dao and when the dao hit the grinder went splat all those people lost access to that refund I'd like to just mention for our viewers that you know the concept of a dao a distributed autonomous organization is a very general and relatively new concept in smart contract creation where you have a company that doesn't have a centralized board essentially and this is different from the DAO which was named after doubt I think it's a very vague name that the slock it used for this decentralized system that's not it's only one of myriad examples of what could be a dao mm-hmm so I was thinking about specific

[19:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTsrE63u6OM&t=1150s) you know thus locket battle right so this locket though if it had not been a total and could be potentially funded round after round after round after round of innovation and Randy theory and maybe in other areas and I thought that was super worth doing but rather than take another bite of the cherry and have another bunch of smart contract that may or may not succeed with all the regulatory associated I I thought when we build something that has completely conventional financial structures every level that is you know white glove by the book you know proper proper proper every level Dundee you know crisp and British fashion right and then goes in

[19:49](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTsrE63u6OM&t=1189s) invest in exactly the same kind of crazy technology that I was going to address and that was kind of the seed of the idea right you know I'd been kicking around for a long time this idea that it'd be nice to be able to do something that was largely about my love talking to intelligent young people by what they're going to do in the future and the idea that you know I that was a pretty good fit for VC as a lifestyle seem like you know about something the next thing I wait to do know when i graph and then the DAO opened up this urgent need for innovation capital wouldn't say to the Ethereum ecosystems like well maybe I should try and build this so here we are right now the scope is broader than just blockchains because fundamentally my first technical up as VR my second technical love was cryptography so you know I think I can't just sit on the sides of the VR revolution you know sitting here hiking or crypto no no no no give me the goggles I wanna go see things that aren't there so you know I didn't want to stay constraints on one thing and our official intelligence is good and amazingly oh my god they've made some strides so be ashamed not be touching up and and the idea was basically just to try and find you know the smartest coolest was interesting young people with great project and capitalized them and encourage them go it build the stuff in a really seriously you know expansionist fashion did I miss any of those technical areas that you especially as excited about in my list I'm actually you are the couple things are not that interested I really example 3d printing is marvelous I don't know anything about it I can't really you know I've no way of telling what's a good or a bad idea in 3d printing so until we find some specialized towel the really knows that stuff I don't think we do much run 3d printing although for the right idea maybe we'll go to hire the town just to do the evaluation well the concept has distributed manufacturing is of course very fascinating oh yeah but I mean you know 3d printer shot no I don't know I haven't seen a 3d printed object I really coveted yet so like really tracks I think electron allowed we can print up our own laptop that's going to add industrial park they're probably some killer applications medicine of course it's a huge thing about it oh my god if you see people you know holding up these zero 3d printed bones that were made exactly from their bone you know this guy tomorrow and then they put in to match my god that's amazing so it wasn't on the initial short list of things

[22:19](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTsrE63u6OM&t=1339s) largely because I didn't have enough hands-on technical experience like you know I can basically tell the difference between quite fine graduations meaning inside most of the technologies that we're talking about 3d printing my level of understanding normal rudimentary and same thing for distributed energy stuff there's amazing things happening in distributed energy my gut feeling is that most of the heavy plays have to high capital requirements for us to be able to be in philly play if you want to go and open a new solar bottle factory bust pizzle little heavy for our pockets so will you be looking as far as the business structure will you be looking at UM creating traditional corporations or the other oh they're going to be the most boring legal entity that we can't be right because what we want to do is we want to concentrate all the risk on the part of the business that is investing in the technology and none of the risk of the legal the governance or any other places it could be okay so but as far as the

[23:25](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTsrE63u6OM&t=1405s) businesses themselves you'll be doing a variety of different formation why does we could possibly cost that and why would hold you know if it a couple years the Ethereum eco structure has matured to the point where it's really credible and not inappropriate we rescue to wind up putting tens of millions of dollars into smaller contracts I loved be able to do things like crowd equity onto our contract right and you know my hope is that the regulators will catch up to the point where that stuff is fully kosher but I mean I'm very very clear that I want to be you know smack in the middle of the daylight broad street of ordinary company structure you know with all the regulatory stuff in place that you would expect because I don't want to be in a position where we're taking one bunch of risks with you know some kind of newfangled company structure which is not well established to work at the same time is we're also going an investing a bunch of other people's money in a bunch of wicked you technology you know it's just too much concentrated risk we want to focus on being quite pedestrian in the structure and then very very creative in the allocation how would you spare

[24:34](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTsrE63u6OM&t=1474s) how would you spend a hundred billion dollar venture fund did you say no Liam i did i had a hundred million at you like it if i had the same kind of money cigna bank the awful hot right but you had investors gotta go as a fund yeah 100 billion is probably I don't know 20 times the size the largest fun in the world so this is quite a large funderburk oh yeah imagine if it's a moonshot stuff with crypto happened you know yeah yeah so you know I gotta control with this record all of this so this is you this is really the far end of Bob Dylan territory so with the fun of that size the absolutely most logical thing to do is all the legal leg work necessary to be able to directly invest in young people by taking a percentage of their wifes ironmans in exchange for lavishly funding their ideas so you know what I would do is I basically partner up with individuals a young age right you know as soon as there we go about selling the contract and say right you look like a superstar we are going to give you risk capital on a preferential basis for your entire life but we own a percentage of the income that comes out of what you do or something along those lines because I think the idea that we're investing in ideas versus investing in people is quite weak I think there's a pretty good there's pretty good evidence or really impressing people secondly the societal mechanisms of inter generational wealth transfer completely destroyed right I mean there is no sense in which we're providing free education for one generation on the basis that they are in a bunch of money which they pay in taxes take care of the old people the old people are being left on their own because the pension funds don't have any money in them and the young people being left to fend for themselves because nobody will invest in their education so the idea that you use venture capital as a mechanism for building intergenerational solidarity to fill the gap left by the withdrawal of the nation-state seems like a really worthwhile thing to go after if you have a fund massage so a sort of distributed investment infrastructure in young human beings yeah right because what we basically say is you know we will preferentially give you the money you need to develop ideals or get education on the basis that maximizes your long-term economic Empire and we then take a cut of that empire and that is exactly the deal that the state used to

[27:04](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTsrE63u6OM&t=1624s) have with individual youngsters will fund your education and will give you government grants start businesses on the basis of going to collect the shares your income in taxation but now we take the money on the back side through taxation but we don't invest anything in the app which totally broken the social contract with young people and that's a market opportunity excuse me I have to go to wash myself or market [Music] after just by saying market opportunity if a dirty the idea of you know filling in the space from the mood role of the state by stepping into the venture capital instead of state land investment you know this gets into things that sound like in a cyberpunk dealing or cyberpunk dealing in Souls you know it sounds like something that Athena the scarier end of the old 1980s literature but what the future was going to be like ah yes you know so you just described my

[27:53](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTsrE63u6OM&t=1673s) twitter timeline with the 80s version of a cyberpunk future but if we had an enormous amount of money you know figuring out a mechanism for intergenerational solidarity poor old people put in their assets young people get investment in education and new businesses and then there's some form of it you know split in revenues or in equity which results in the old people get in their pensions paid for that was exactly the way welfare it was intended to operate and it was intensely entrepreneurial because it provided the educational resources and provided the seed capital for a wave after wave after wave of innovation so the idea that the state has becomes a week the private enterprise might have to step into that gap that's really worth do it but you need 100 billion to get this started so you know something else just let me know if you find it yeah that's what I wanted to ask just putting it out there to mine it's mine viewership just a bunch of being a young person hard a quarter of a million dollar education line of credit drawn against you drink up but not in the form of a loan in the form of an equity split revenues so you got more sense you could get educated in anything that you want to get educated and you know you'd have enough money that you could go out there and you can do you know your PhD in one go lien throat singing and then you could go home and finish your PhD in advanced math and then you could go out there and build a bunch of companies because you'd also be able to be easy access to venture fund I mean these kids would be super-powered and I bet they do end up running a good chunk of the global economy if you how does a deal yeah I definitely see the

[29:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTsrE63u6OM&t=1767s) possibility of that too and I what really resonate it's like a trust fund for talent right exactly yeah what resonated with me in your description of the company as you see the plan was really this idea of treating human beings as scarce and capital as abundant that's a really good paradigm shift and it does tie in with this idea of an equity based or an asset a system rather than a dead man you bet I mean right now you know there are something like 15 unicorn companies created each year roughly something like 15 companies become billion-dollar enterprises each year and my guess is the number of individuals that have direct hands-on that process is probably 30 or 60 people per company you know there'll be the founder but there'll also be the founders older brother who does the accounts for the first three years and keep something going bankrupt a couple times and they'll be you know the guy that actually make sure the product came out on time who was theoretically just a product manager actually the whole company hinged on his performance you know they'll be a relatively small number of players made baha which means that the vast majority of the well from the global economy which has been created by people the new wealth or the wealth the things that we recognize as well it's only a few thousand people year that are actually harms on in that process and you know the notion that those people are relatively scarce you know Apple has a hundred and eighty billion dollars and come true sir they're not short of money but they're short of his talent to turn the money into better for applicants yeah and this this is where the you know distributed autonomous organizations can flip the script as well if you've got 10 million people sharing in the success of an organization it almost isn't even a company anymore then it's kind of a movement in a way absolutely and that sort of stuff I mean you know much as I hate the kind of potential Ponzi schemes and other abuses the DAO concert and I can't imagine that you know basically equity crowdfunding is not the future of the world and it'll talk on this in Wales a couple years ago by equity crowdfunding and I just really believe that equity crowdfunding is how weary democritus couple I can't disagree with you alright let's take a

[31:46](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTsrE63u6OM&t=1906s) left turn and go totally weird to wrap up this fantastic talk with vinay Gupta my question is are you ready here we go do you think it's possible that ultra advanced technology such as free energy anti-gravity wormholes or time travel might be possessed by a tiny faction of people in the world ah this is the breakaway civilization thing yeah of course no doubt about it right and let me give you a simple simple completely conservative example of this right the NSA has something like 50 years of classified mathematics right so without any shadow of a doubt if you're an extremely advanced student mathematics there are things that the NSA knows that you don't know and that you would really really like to know and we're not talking about you know simple shiny new technology like your wormhole generator what we're talking about is understanding fundamental nature of talent e equals MC squared etc

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End of [679] FutureRant - Vinay Gupta Pt 4/4 - "Cypherpunk to Cyberpunk". Its connections are at the top of this file; the map is https://guptaoption.com/llms.txt.
Read next: next on the same works, [276](https://guptaoption.com/texts/276.md) Dubai trip notes September 2016 (2016); the most closely related, [680](https://guptaoption.com/texts/680.md) Blockchain technology, trade-offs, and helping launch... (2021); his whole career in one file, https://guptaoption.com/story.md.