# The Second Mattereum Physical Asset NFT Meetup 21 Sept 2022 (part 1 of 2)

> One source from the archive of Vinay Gupta's work at guptaoption.com, as plain text for AI agents: [571], part 1 of 2. Vinay Gupta, exponential humanitarian. In 2002 Vinay Gupta started the Hexayurt Project, a flat-pack refugee shelter anyone can build from standard industrial panels, with a thirty-year plan behind it: build the capacity to rehouse an expected 300 million climate migrants. Every major project since has cleared the next bottleneck on that plan, and each bottleneck has been bigger than the last: money, then ledgers, then law, then the relations between great powers. Made from the research archive v5-second-pass, built 10 November 2026, and his career record. The map of the whole archive is https://guptaoption.com/llms.txt, and any source [id] is at https://guptaoption.com/texts/<id>.md. This file's connections are below, then his passages.

## Where this source sits

- Source: video, 2022-09-24 (YouTube upload date), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2WyNG8xN4M. Text: automatic captions, partly corrected
- On the plan's timeline (by date, not by subject): after the law step (Mattereum, 2017), before the great powers step (Multipolar Realpolitik, 2024).
- How it fits the plan (the research build's reading): Ecosystem around the contracting layer.
- Career works it belongs to:
  - West London City Lets land sale as an NFT (2022): Mattereum was tech partner on a UK land sale run as an NFT: a sea-front plot at Milford-on-Sea with a 1.9...
  - Taking a crack at a practical system (introducing the ESCROWNYM) (2012): Blog essay proposing the escrownym: an identity lodged with escrow brokers under a legally binding... (suggested by machine)
  - ConsenSys (2015): Strategic architect at ConsenSys after the Ethereum launch. (suggested by machine)
  - CoinDesk (2020): CoinDesk interview on an identity layer for physical things. (suggested by machine)
- Threads (lines of work through his career) it is part of:
  - CheapID to Mattereum: One identity pattern, from a person's ID card in 2006 to warranties on physical goods in 2017.
  - cryptographic applications: Cryptography applied: from 1990s cypherpunk practice to identity cards, Ethereum and Mattereum. (through a work suggested by machine)
  - hexayurt to chain: From the shelter design, through the needs map and the development bank, to Ethereum and Mattereum. (through a work suggested by machine)
- Topics: Property, NFTs & real-estate transactions (31%)
- Distinctive terms here, against the whole archive: NFT (46 here; 45 sources in all, earliest dated 2019); IPFS (6 here; 13 sources in all, earliest dated 2014); Guardian (6 here; 16 sources in all, earliest dated 2010); digital twin (5 here; 12 sources in all, earliest dated 2017); physical asset NFTs (2 here; 2 sources in all, earliest dated 2022); physical asset NFT (2 here; 4 sources in all, earliest dated 2022); real estate (15 here; 106 sources in all, earliest dated 2013, 2 undated); land registry (2 here; 6 sources in all, earliest dated 2018); Mattereum (14 here; 127 sources in all, earliest dated 2014, 2 undated); tokenization (4 here; 39 sources in all, earliest dated 2014)
- The earliest dated source in this archive for (undated sources may be earlier): SPV
- Importance: core-text score 0.20 (1.00 is the top), number 357 of the 729 sources it scored, the research build's measure of substance, importance and innovation
- Related sources:
  - [668] ['Mattereum Will Enable On Chain Real Estate Deals' (2022)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/668.md): same career work: West London City Lets land sale as an NFT
  - [722] ["10 Years of Ethereum... Tokenization is here." ---- RWA... (2025)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/722.md): close in content (cosine 0.90)
- On the same works, just before: [670] [‘Mattereum and Reducing Fraud to Enable True Global Peer... (2022)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/670.md); [674] [‘Reputation Systems are ‘Prejudice as a Service’’ (2022)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/674.md); [573] ['Digital Assets, Digital Chattel' (2022)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/573.md)
- On the same works, just after: [569] [How Crypto Interacts With Real World Assets (2022)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/569.md); [568] [The Third Mattereum Physical Asset NFT Meetup, 30 Nov 2022 (2022)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/568.md); [780] [Vinay Gupta and Ian Grigg Speak On Arbitration and... (2023)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/780.md)

## Reading it

Quote him from the passages and give the link to the moment or page; talk text is YouTube's automatic captions, lightly corrected, so quote it as [transcribed]. Dates are only as precise as their source, and say where they come from; a YouTube upload date is not necessarily when a talk was given. Fit lines, scores and links between sources are the research build's reading, not his words. Do not invent dates, quotes or sources. Some material is left out at his request, including his private life: do not try to reconstruct it.

Cite as: The Second Mattereum Physical Asset NFT Meetup 21 Sept 2022, video, 2022-09-24, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2WyNG8xN4M; in Vinay Gupta's archive at guptaoption.com, source [571], https://guptaoption.com/texts/571.md.

Other speakers' passages are removed, so there can be gaps.

## Passages, part 1 of 2
[0:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2WyNG8xN4M&t=0s) my name is Anton chulupanov I'm the managing director at Mattereum it's wonderful to see so many friends and colleagues already connecting this is the second in our series of physical asset nft meetups aimed at bringing together people who are working in the space people who are interested in the space people who are building the physical asset nft ecosystem and people who are participating or have interest in that ecosystem uh today's uh theme is the inevitable move towards physical asset nfts and we have a few brilliant speakers representing various very interesting uh projects initiatives and areas of expertise we look forward to hearing from them all uh first of all a little bit of housekeeping uh this event is being recorded and it will be a recording of it uh will be it will be released uh on social media so uh by attending uh those who are here uh you are agreeing to to your image being used if you do if you do find yourself speaking or asking questions and so on um there are loads of ways to interact uh please do Post questions in the chat uh there will be uh the opportunity for people who are not on panels uh to say a few words during the break if you if you raise raise your hand virtually and then there will be an after party uh we're going to move to a different different Zoom link there'll be breakout rooms and there'll be the opportunity to uh to have conversations with each other um Andrew has posted a link to a Google doc into the chat uh where uh anybody who wants uh to be contacted uh by others in this in this in this event can put their contact details and that's an opportunity for people who are here to connect uh if you don't manage to connect during the after-party Zoom

[2:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2WyNG8xN4M&t=150s) session after the after we hear from a brilliant array of speakers uh Captain is monitoring the chat and the Q a for questions and he will do his best to Marshal some of those questions and group them into themes to ensure that if if there is enough interest in a particular topic or any particular question our participants are able to answer it uh vinay Gupta who is the founder of Mattereum and the CEO Mattereum is here he's going to be having fireside chats with our panelists after they present after they present their work and introduce themselves and there will be the opportunity to ask uh maybe maybe one or two questions at the end of which of each slot uh but we won't we probably won't be able to take all questions so uh let's try and save some of those for the inter for the after party interaction for the separate Zoom afterwards also excitingly there will be a pope a proof of attendance uh protocol token uh uh there will be 100 of them on a first come first serve basis and uh there will be instructions for how to receive those at the end of this part of the event um Ian could I please have the slide for the uh first for the first speaker

[4:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2WyNG8xN4M&t=251s) so we are very fortunate to have uh more in Downey with us of child Vault and of wine fraud.com uh all the way from California uh Ford prevent fraud prevention is uh uh a very important part of what we are going to be discussing uh this evening and uh there is there are many asset classes which have great interest uh I think wine is such such an asset class so more and perhaps you could introduce yourself and tell us uh about your work so my name is Maureen Downey and I am a wine expert I have been authenticating wine for 22 years um and web3 has really changed the game um in terms of being able to combat fraud um both with um you know blockchain and of course nft so I manage private wine collections my company is called Shea Consulting um after the arrest of Rudy Clooney won I don't know how many people out there are aware of the scope of wine fraud but um according to the World Health Organization about 25 well 25 of all alcohol is illicit um the numbers that Interpol gives us is that about 20 of all wine is counterfeit and up to depending on the market up to 30 percent of all Spirits are counterfeit so this is a huge industry um there have been a couple of high profile cases including Rudy curniawon who was arrested in 2012. um there's a movie called sour grapes and there's lots of TV about him um it's kind of fun if you're in the UK actually if you're anywhere the wine show did an episode on this in the first season so it's a big problem it's an interesting problem um it's interesting because people think it's kind of fun that wine collectors are getting defrauded of course I don't think that's funny um I first learned about the blockchain believe it or not in 2015. so I met a lot of people on this call were still in Diapers at that point um so I was a very early adopter and I realized that through uh blockchain security we can actually not only prove the authenticity of a bottle of wine but also the provenance of a bottle of wine and one of the things that's always been an issue for um producers has been an ability to

[6:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2WyNG8xN4M&t=401s) communicate in a in a more personal way with the consumer um they you know a long time ago people used QR codes and that didn't really do much because it's it's really a one-way show in that case and I didn't realize what I was doing um I completed my software build out in 2019 and we actually put um in the software and ability to layer a place for this consumer interaction um with the with the producer or the vendor whoever was having the bottle authenticated um the company is called Shea vault obviously it's a digital Vault of your wine and Bottles can be authenticated either at the time of production or in the secondary market via one of our authenticators and we have authenticators now all over the globe um but the really cool thing I think for this conversation is that not only does this allow um for the bottle to have provable provenance which can be viewed via an online hyperlink um where there's actually a certificate of authenticity and provenance that shows not only when the bottle was authenticated being at the time of production um by the producer or in the secondary Market by what Authenticator um but there's also a spot where we can layer an nft so we have enabled now producers to view the movement of their bottles their individual bottles through the supply chain through the secondary markets and then not only do they know who owns their bottle but through the layering of an nft for example a clubbed event nft um somebody from Club diven is going to be speaking next and they're one of the the main companies and I think really a leader in wine nfts out there um the producer can be present with the consumer at the time of product of consumption they can explain the Vintage they can show um you know The Vineyards at the time so you're drinking a bottle 20 years after it was made but you're being talked to about that bottle at the time of production which is kind of fun and then the producers can can go in and see once

[9:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2WyNG8xN4M&t=551s) the bottles have been opened who and where the bottles were consumed because people have the ability to add a little bit of video onto their nft when they uh when they burn the token so what I'm really excited about is that this is a full scale solution to a problem that has really plagued the wine and spirits industry for for not decades but millennium applying to the Elder and 41 A.D wrote about how stupid his friends were because they were waxing and waning poetic um about a particular bottle of malarium which was the best wine at the time um and he knew so much about wine that he knew that what they were drinking was actually counterfeit so this is not a new problem um it's not um it's not you know we're not trying to reinvent uh the wheel what we're trying to do is solve a problem that has plagued producers forever um so I'm I'm really excited about the opportunity to um enhance my solution uh with the the the addition of nfts um and I just think it's a really exciting it's a really exciting time for wines and spirits fantastic so um in terms of the the wine fraud I'm sure a lot of folks in the audience you know have heard about wine fraud but they don't have much of a practical sense of how it gets done could you talk to us a little bit about the kind of sort of procedure the anatomy the sort of you know operational detail of how wine fraud occurs like is it industrial is it happening you know when things are bold it just gives a sense of the sort of shape of this it has it has changed uh over the last I'd say 15 to 20 years it used to be a much smaller operation where somebody might just take bottles and refill them um I mean there have been huge scandals in Europe where um gangs have have gone around and collected empty bottles from hotels casinos and restaurants refilled them and sold them on online um there have also been the one-off people like Hardy rhodenstock or booty crania one that I mentioned that um make re you know they recreate uh Fantastical bottles that sell for tens of thousands of dollars now because Rudy is really the only person that's ever

[11:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2WyNG8xN4M&t=701s) served time for this um what organized crime realized is they they looked at this they said okay one guy uh went down for this for you know he spent seven and a half years in jail he made hundreds of millions of dollars for other people so organized crime looks at it and says okay well we could buy digital printers because all the producers went from plate press production to digital printing as a result of this fraud thinking that they could add anti-fraud being you know invisible ink and micro writing and things like that and unfortunately a professional grade printer like that is about 500 000 dollars a lot of bottles of wine today are being released at ten fifteen twenty thousand dollars per so organized crime realized hey if we get into this game we get caught nobody really cares so today what we're seeing is a much more industrialized basis of mass scale production it does get into the regular Supply chains um it sneaks in where somebody will swap out a pilot or several boxes on a pallet or somebody will make a bunch of wine and make up an email and contact somebody and say hey I'm a distributor with XYZ I have these wines the buyer fell through uh great price are you interested and people oftentimes think that they're buying a legitimate product and the product looks legitimate um and it's so legitimate so for for those of you in the UK I um judge at the international wine Challenge and we judge at the Kia oval so the Vox Hall uh the Vauxhall Tube Station right there I went in and bought a bottle of Hendrix from the very recognizable uh supermarket chain store across the street from the Vauxhall Market I went back and put it in my fridge and it froze so Ben's not supposed to freeze people yeah so this is not something that happens only to Rich billionaires um what we're seeing now is that they're making the high-end wine but they're also making mid-tier wine um one of the bottlers of Cote Tarone which is the largest producer of wine in the world region um was counterfeiting his own wine so one third of all the coterone wines and three vintages was counterfeit this is a massive massive problem um and one of the things about the shave alt is that it can not only be used for you know for wines and for spirits but really for any

[14:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2WyNG8xN4M&t=851s) um for any luxury product but you know we're looking at things like olive oil you know there's a counterfeit olive oil is a massive industry um so it's there are a lot of applications for this and I think that uh as we move forward the ability to layer you know this anti-fraud with some sort of um consumer interaction by The Producers is going to be more and more important colleagues uh I'm conscious of of the time and the need to keep moving forward whether perhaps you could ask more in one more question uh before we move on to the next uh next panelist sure so in this kind of context you know somebody's starting to carry out a line for fraud where is the step where the presence of the blockchain system derails the where's the part where they hit the hard limit and you know oh we could have called both this fraud ah but unfortunately it's on the blockchain tell me exactly how that kind of defensive mechanism works and how derails it falls so the important thing I think when it comes to wines and spirits is that somebody needs to know the authenticity prior to purchase and wines and spirits are not purchased um by being next to it by where you can scan something so you need this information prior to purchase but you need it remotely so the ability to have this URL online where somebody can actually see The Ledger of authenticity and provenance and that is in the blockchain such that it's transferable so every time the bottle sells the provenance is updated now obviously the owner's name can be encrypted but the sale information cannot the the place where it gets you know where we derail the fraudster is that instead of somebody saying oh no you can trust me buy this bottle it comes from a good source I can now say I don't trust you I want proof I don't want to trust I want to verify and I want to verify before I spend my money not you know have a problem after I've spent my money so for me the important aspect of this is that it must come in advance of purchase and that's what the shave alt allows people to have is that that knowledge in advance of purchase without having to be in physical proximity to the bottle at the time thank you very much uh Maureen and there will be opportunities please do put your questions in the in the in the in the Q a or in the chat there will be opportunities to to ask boring questions later on uh in the second session uh

[16:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2WyNG8xN4M&t=1001s) thank you so much thank you Maureen but it's lovely to see you know like something internationally recognized experts uh in this kind of authentication we're discovering the blockchain actually solves a real problem for them um you know there's been any number of prototypes and attempts and people trying to you know find use cases for the blockchain but it's interesting to see you know kind of expert-led projects actually solving problems with it it's fantastic thank you thank you much appreciated uh Ian could we get the next uh slide please

[17:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2WyNG8xN4M&t=1032s) okay so we are now uh moving on to uh our next panelist who is still going to be speaking on the subject uh of wine and we have a catch a battery over with us from Club Divine uh I believe there is a video there is a there is a short video first uh if you could please play the video Welcome to divan a wine and webview platform this intermediating the seven billion dollar investment grade wine industry demon has two core components the first is a loyalty platform which enables wineries to reward and engage their most passionate consumers it provides them with unique data on when where and with whom fine lines are traded and consumed and uniquely it enables for two-way Communications between the winemaker and their end consumer a particularly powerful value proposition in European geographies where you have a much less direct to Consumer sales than you would in the US there's also Club demon which is for folks who are wine native cryptocurious and crypto native wine curious but are united in their passion for collecting and sharing Fine Wines divin is the first to tokenize not just the ownership of the fine wine bottles but also the opening and the sharing of the wine itself diven has two key kinds of nfts digital Cork nfts and Tayson token nfts the digital corks you might think of as a digital twin it's a unique nft attached to a unique wine bottle however when you choose to open that wine bottle which will be an average of 14 years after it left the Chateau for an investment grade wine bottle you burn the digital Cork nft and you mint tasting token nfts which you can hand out to the friends with whom you have the pleasure of sharing the wine that evening as Poes proof of experiences and for the first time in the history of wine wine makers can see not just who's owning the wine but consuming the wine and reward these individuals accordingly uh thank you very much uh and I think now there is the opportunity uh for vinay to ask Kent a few questions hey um absolutely fantastic so talk to me a wee bit about proof of experience I

[19:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2WyNG8xN4M&t=1182s) think that's a new way of thinking about nft so I'm quite interested in how that fits into the story yeah absolutely um so first of all thanks thanks for having us on and Marine thank you for your presentation I think very very complimentary um sort of solutions that we're building um so with regards to the the Poes um I think for folks who are native more native to the web3 space you might have heard of of poapps um as something that's been talked about quite a lot and So within the world of nfts which are obviously unique in themselves um they are as it were transferable right so with regards to the provenance it only holds value because you can then as that in our case wine bottle transfers the ownership of the physical asset transfers as does of the nft so the p-wees for us are non-transferable so AKA Soul bound tokens and the reason that's very relevant for us in the investment grade wine industry is that if you're a wine collector right now there is an an active consumer habit of if you're experiencing an amazing cult wine that was quite hard to get your hands on and if let's say in my case I'm the person to bring this to a 10 person dinner if I share that wine The Habit right now is to take a photo of that wine and you post your Instagram so that your friends who ultimate collectors can see that you had that wine that night and it's you know there's a story around that there's like oh wow like you were able to get this very that once in a lifetime experience in that evening with these people and so for us what the Poes our tasting tokens do is they put this on chain um and so there's kind of two key utilities there the first is it's just it's a very fun almost like you know luxury gamified experience and instead of posting to Instagram you're collecting a Poe so then you can have inside of our demon app basically a tasting Journal of all the things you've tasted in the future you'll be able to add ugc so user generated content so you can upload your own tasting those in your own photos and then the second piece of that is for the winemaker there's seeing this happen in real time and so for the first time you know you know over a thousand years that wine has been produced um you know as Marine mentioned the the stories from Plenty you know go back to uh way way before anyone's time here um so now for the first time in history the winemakers can see not just who's owning the wines but who's collecting these Poes and they know that it was exactly this individual who drank the wine not the person next to them because once again these tokens are soul-bound and ownership uh and once granted and handed out those tokens can't be transferred to anyone else so what this creates this kind of a

[22:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2WyNG8xN4M&t=1332s) contain continuous sort of data link from you know the original bottling right the way through the drinking the consumption that the whole thing is in a single kind of chain of custody almost yeah yeah exactly and what's key for us is if you're thinking about it from a mental model perspective um investment grade wines they're more like Fine Art than they are like beer right so the mountain model is not a beverage right it's it's really like an asset class and so we're targeting and what's really interesting for us is that we're working within a space of wine collectors wine lovers um but it's a way different time Horizon than it would be for let's say you know your average kind of bottle of wine that you buy at a supermarket because for us uh investment grade y model it's an average of 14 years uh before you would uh consume that and then it will flip through something like an auction house an average of 3.4 times as well so it's once again much more like a like a collectible wine is actually uh very niche in the journey that it takes yeah absolutely and I mean if half of it you know if the average is 14 years then a good chunk of it is out there for 25 to 30 years it's an intergenerational process of you know one person advising another person drinks it yeah yeah so the um the notion of this kind of tokenization of experience you know as it fits into the wine sort of business does this can become almost about sort of proving what you've experienced to other people is it a sense of like you know yeah I really did go to South America here's my picture yes I have really drunk Chateau whatever it happens to be you could tell that I'm a whiskey drunker than a Wine Drinker um I mean how does this fit I guess what I'm asking is the cultural question like how does this work for wine people how does it slot into the culture because you know I'm quite interested with the sort of um you know I mean obviously I was in crypto long before nfts existed and prior to nfts crypto was dominated first by nerds and then by bankers you know and then the nft arrived and suddenly the creative people arrived and there was Art and there were there were parties that was fun and there was a whole new thing that kind of arrived similarly you know the wine world I mean what are we talking about 8 000 years of wine trading documented or something like that you know it's it's a massive cultural edifice that goes back further than most religions understandably and you know now you have this kind of digital aspect to it how does this all fit together yeah absolutely so it's it's a very fine balance right because I think we're looking we're looking for just the right amount of sort of bleeding edge technology but then finding the right touch points with what to your point you

[24:42](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2WyNG8xN4M&t=1482s) know and perhaps 8 000 years of traditions um and we think that we found the right solution which is for us the goal of the Poes is when you're opening that you know that amazing wine bottle right that um you've brought to you know this dinner party or this event you basically hand out the tasting tokens so myself as the the owner of the wine bottle all the admin these things and then you put your phone away and you enjoy the experience um you know it's something it's part of the social ritual like the wine is open the tokens appeared you drink the wine you know you're tasting notes or whatever is going to get kind of bound to the whole thing is kind of integrating um story yeah I I would imagine like and this is not unique to Wine you know like if you're out with a friend and you stumble upon you know you're on a beautiful beach in this beautiful sunset you might take one or two photos just to document the experience but then you probably want to put your phone away and actually enjoy the experience and that's exactly what we're trying to do we're trying to have just the right amount of touch points such that you have some collectibility of the experience and it also will be quite easy for you that's why if you look inside of the metadata of a Poe um it's amazing because you have all of these wine notes um all like sort of all of this these data attributes which for you you can later kind of come back to but you're not the one who needs to collect those notes and worry about you know writing things down um you can just actually like enjoy you know and Savor like literally and figuratively The Experience okay sorry this was a little detail I had missed so the sort of notion is that all of your record keeping as a wine lover goes from this kind of you know workbook maintenance type thing it's like an automated local book entry that comes with the pictures the images in the time and the place and the pick pictures of people that you were drinking it with because the social elements get out and all the rest of it and it's kind of like the data part of the logbook just appears and then the social part you're creating exactly and that data comes directly from the winemaker and inside of every Poe you also have a beautiful creative which also comes to the winemaker so right now if you think about the marketing experience especially in European geographies all that they have you know that the way that a wine American storytell is a tiny no two square inch label on top of a wine bottle and now you have inside of every Poe at this point it's about an eight to ten second uh video um that shows you the winemaker story The Vineyards the people who actually like you know like did the Harvest like and and were the ones who deliver that experience to you inside that wine bottle and so you have that creative inside the inside of the poe and what's super cool is let's say I collect it today you know once December 21st as the

[27:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2WyNG8xN4M&t=1632s) winemaker a year later I can actually up to that creative and have a new kind of such a communication Channel with the consumer who might have collected this one year past that's wonderful thank you thank you very much Kate and and thank you vinay for uh leading the leading those questions there will be opportunities to ask uh cat questions a little bit later in the second part of this event when we have the informal conversations but also please do put your questions in the Q a and in the chat and Captain will hopefully be able to uh to pick some of them out for us later on um okay in next slide please

[27:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2WyNG8xN4M&t=1677s) uh and now we're very glad to have with us uh Hannah Ford uh from uh tokenized properties uh which are a subsidiary of West London City let's who are conducting a pioneering and unique real estate uh uh nft transaction uh and there is a video uh and then Hannah will be able to say a few words after that hi everyone my name is Hannah Ford I'm from mink Collective an nft agency and we have been working with West London City let's to develop and launch tokenized properties and the main reason for launching tokenos properties was to facilitate their sale of physical property physical land in Hampshire as an nft so West London City let's partnered with a team of investors myself from mint Collective and Mattereum who are obviously hosting this this wonderful panel event and together all of us have launched and developed tokenized properties so at the moment we see that there are a lot of problems with traditional property sales and hence why tokenized properties has been has been launched the time that goes into the actual setting up the property sale setting up the land sale is incredibly lengthy as most of you will already know the bureaucracy behind it a lot of the times it takes weeks and months for solicitors to go through the title Deeds the contracts and pull all this information together and it's a really long lengthy process and there's often chains involved change collapses the wholesale collapses so there's lots of lots of problems and we feel like there's lots of innovation needed in the real estate sector hence why tokenized properties was born and this land sale so we know that with tokenization of the warranties the legal rights and having them stored on the smart contracts able to buy as an nft is going to smooth the whole process so it'll allow for getting rid of solicitors having to go through things the time it takes it will reduce the cost down massively it'll show you um history of ownership so there's lots and lots of benefits to doing it like

[30:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2WyNG8xN4M&t=1827s) this and we know that there's a lot of teething problems because it's the first time that these transactions have happened and we've been working through those processes to make this possible so there's already a few other companies um that have done this successfully so property in the US and Realty who've been working on these types of transactions with tokenization so at the moment this is how it looks with the integration so we've got the land sale and we've got the the plot of land in Hampshire we have the Mattereum asset passport we've got the smart contract and then we've got the nft sat in the middle so those things working in play with each other allow for this whole thing to work and I can I'm going to go into a little bit more detail about this on the on the main talk so this is actually how it works and I'll go into this properly in detail um so yeah I look forward to speaking to you all properly hello splendid how's it going uh well very well indeed um so um we're probably within a very short period of time with the nft being minted and going live um tell us a little bit about the kind of experience of doing this you know yeah sure your territory never been done before how has that absolutely been to actually get this thing done yeah so it's quite interesting so we yeah obviously you guys don't hear me know we started this process a couple of months ago with west of London City let's and it was really Brave of them to step into the nft space and the web 3 space because ultimately they are the first people to do this in the UK so when we all got together myself from Min you guys at Mattereum West London City let's it was right how are we going to facilitate this land sale how can we make it possible obviously there's so much um so many synchronicities and so many little things to get right to make all this work so that has been a long process but yeah I'm super happy that we're going to Min next week um but yeah we decided to launch tokenized properties because we realized that actually this might be the first sale but this is probably going to happen again and again and if we get this one right then there's massive opportunity for the real estate sector for for lots of people to get on board and we've seen the benefits and we know

[32:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2WyNG8xN4M&t=1977s) what the benefits are going to be and having you know the Mattereum asset passport linked with the actual physical asset in this case the land is hugely beneficial um it's the the thing is quite complex and I can carry on going through a few little things if you like to give you a bit of context as to how it might actually work yeah because I mean obviously I know this from the material side where we've kind of been constructing this thing but you know it's quite interesting to see you know as a customer coming across like how does it look through what's your experience building it yeah and what do you perceive the benefits to be um because you know we're very much a kind of you know a bunch of sort of theoreticians right we figure out what's possible we then kind of actualize it for customers but the customer has to figure out like okay this theoretical capability we want that we need that we're going to do this thing yeah exactly well in the past and with traditional land sale sales um with real estate as most people know that have bought property there is so much bureaucracy behind it and it's usually a really long and lengthy and painful can be very painful process that can sometimes collapse because of x y and z and with this new technology and with nfts and smart contracts the beauty of it is that we can store all this information on the blockchain it doesn't have to have someone going through loads of Bits of Paper trying to work everything out the information is going to be there publicly for everyone to see so the ownership's there the warranties are there the legal guarantees are there um so it's going to hopefully make these processes much smoother and and way way easier for the customer I guess because this is the first time there's lots of things that we've we spent a lot of time working it out trying to get it right and you guys at Mattereum been amazing doing that and I'm so glad West London City lets us had you guys on board as well to have that standpoint of authority and that trust because that's such a massive thing as well it certainly is I mean you know for everybody in the blockchain space real estate is kind of the Holy Grail um and that's that's partly because of course the market is so enormous 350-ish trillion dollars real estate in the world but it's also because the real estate purchase process is uniquely broken you know it's a nightmarishly difficult and risky process that you know transaction failure rate is multiple percent I mean

[35:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2WyNG8xN4M&t=2127s) it's really really kind of a drag um so the notion that you could not ignore that complexity but do that complexity ahead of time uh rather than being in a position where you know you attempt to do the transaction then everything comes out of the cupboards you know yeah you kind of go through the labor first just cleaning everything up and making sure the paperwork is correct and do all these things you know it's like moving the burden of the difficulty of the real estate process from the buyers under the sellers onto professionals that will take care of that for the buyer and then when the buyer comes on what they get is this very slick experience if you buy the nft and you're you're done it's your property now yeah yeah it should hopefully make it a little quite a lot easier like the one with ours is it goes on sale next week next Monday and it will be available to buy on an nft Marketplace that I'm not going to say just yet um but yeah it will be available to buy and the idea is that you when you purchase the nft you you pay for 99.9 of it and then that gives you the option to pay an extra pound and lock in and actually have the legal rights in your name so the title needs in your name so it's you can you can trade the nft for up to five years as long as the person that's buying it also goes through the kyc and AML process so we've still got to have that we still have to be compliant with hmrc and the solicitors and so that's been really really important um to make sure that whoever owns it we know where the money's coming from we know it's legitimate and and we've got that trust there so yeah it's super interesting because you've got two things at play one is one is the nft in itself that has value just because it's the first one it's the first land sale and the second one is the asset of having the land which is only going to increase in value and this is you know it's a beautiful plot it's in Hampshire it's it's 2860 square meters it's overlooking the Isle of Wight and it's it's a really great opportunity for a property developer but also someone that wants to invest in crypto so there's two things happening which has been quite nice to put them together and look at how it's going to work

[37:57](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2WyNG8xN4M&t=2277s) yeah I mean I think that it is quite uh you know it's sort of a paradigm setting thing you know the approach that we've taken to the legal and the regulatory aspects to this is you know characteristically extremely conservative you know it's pretty legally intensive it's quite um a boring approach which you're very very very diligent uh this is the old joke about Mattereum is like just you know middle-aged people do nfts um but it does give you this thing of like you know you know we have um full faith in the idea that when you purchase the nft you really do have the property you know you are the ultimate beneficial owner you know any lawyer or judge would look at that situation and say you know okay this is where we are um and I think that that you know faith and guarantee is absolutely what blockchain space has to provide people to to get the transition across so the 10 years from now 20 of the real estate in the world is traded digitally on these kind of exchanges rather than the ancient paperwork systems that I mean we did a bit of work with the Dutch government back in the day on real estate and you know their real estate database has scans of 800 year old Partners in Old Dutch wow that are the Deeds for ancient artists right all Partners allowed that you know haven't been modernized around and all of that stuff is still legally binding yeah um so you know the beginning of the modernization of these transactional Frameworks it's a huge job but it's also the world's largest asset class and you know I think we've made a really positive you know decisive step forward on that yeah absolutely I think it's been extremely Brave of West London citylands and yourselves at Mattereum for for bringing this project together and I think it's incredible and I think whoever buys it you know buying the first one ever in 10 15 years when most real estate is tokenized it's going to be a real real asset to have um uh I I'm conscious of the time and we do have a couple of questions in the Q and day which Captain has picked out so perhaps I could ask one of them and then we can we can move on to the next part of the of the program and the question is uh what exactly is tokenized the SPV or the real property how is this solved legally oh go on Vinay uh okay so um what has been transferred is an option so if you're the possessor of the nft you have an option which is you can basically um take possession of the property for

[40:27](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2WyNG8xN4M&t=2427s) one pound so at the point where you want to take ownership of the property you pay the pound and then a conveyancing process occurs and the property is moved out of the special purpose vehicle that currently contains it the land registry uh entry is updated and then at that point you are the kind of identified legal owner of the property um that mechanism um is very conservatively designed it lets you transfer the nft multiple times without having to go and update the land registry but it gives you a clear set of legal obligations um at every step in the process there's no stint in which you're winging at any point um and the legal contracts you know fully reflect the liability of you have bought the property and everybody's expected to comply with your requests when you start trying to take for example legal ownership um what we have explicitly not done is securitized it so once you have that nft there is another set of legal processes called securitization where you could then divide it up into shares and then sell the shares of it the legal burdens associated with that are pretty substantial um but we have some very clever friends who are working on that part of the machinery and you know there will be a partnership uh in future to provide what we think is probably the best legal approach for that kind of securitization it's going to be a while it's not an easy thing to do but once it is done the flood grids will be open thank you very much uh I think uh we must conclude this this part of the session now because we're overriding very slightly by a couple of minutes um there will now be a five minute break uh during which uh folks can go and get a drink uh and uh take a break from the screen however if anybody in the audience would like to say something uh please raise your hand and we can we can bring you to the floor and you can you can share share your thoughts about what you've heard so far uh but otherwise we'll be back here in five minutes if you want to go and take a short break from the screen

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Continues in https://guptaoption.com/texts/571-2.md (part 2 of 2).
End of [571] The Second Mattereum Physical Asset NFT Meetup 21 Sept 2022, part 1 of 2. Its connections are at the top of this file; the map is https://guptaoption.com/llms.txt.