# The Third Mattereum Physical Asset NFT Meetup, 30 Nov 2022 (part 3 of 3) > One source from the archive of Vinay Gupta's work at guptaoption.com, as plain text for AI agents: [568], part 3 of 3. Vinay Gupta, exponential humanitarian. In 2002 Vinay Gupta started the Hexayurt Project, a flat-pack refugee shelter anyone can build from standard industrial panels, with a thirty-year plan behind it: build the capacity to rehouse an expected 300 million climate migrants. Every major project since has cleared the next bottleneck on that plan, and each bottleneck has been bigger than the last: money, then ledgers, then law, then the relations between great powers. Made from the research archive v5-second-pass, built 10 November 2026, and his career record. The map of the whole archive is https://guptaoption.com/llms.txt, and any source [id] is at https://guptaoption.com/texts/.md. This file's connections are below, then his passages. ## Where this source sits - Source: video, 2022-12-07 (YouTube upload date), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9c3_PoQ9xA. Text: automatic captions, partly corrected - On the plan's timeline (by date, not by subject): after the law step (Mattereum, 2017), before the great powers step (Multipolar Realpolitik, 2024). - How it fits the plan (the research build's reading): Ecosystem around the contracting layer. - Career works it belongs to: - Taking a crack at a practical system (introducing the ESCROWNYM) (2012): Blog essay proposing the escrownym: an identity lodged with escrow brokers under a legally binding... (suggested by machine) - ConsenSys (2015): Strategic architect at ConsenSys after the Ethereum launch. (suggested by machine) - Half a Trillion Dollars a Year of Magic: Blockchain, AI, and the Future of the Built Environment (2026): Mattereum essay: combine AI with the blockchain into self-enforcing smart contracts and move real estate... (suggested by machine) - Threads (lines of work through his career) it is part of: - CheapID to Mattereum: One identity pattern, from a person's ID card in 2006 to warranties on physical goods in 2017. (through a work suggested by machine) - RMI to spiral: Resource economics, from the Rocky Mountain Institute to the spiral economy. (through a work suggested by machine) - cryptographic applications: Cryptography applied: from 1990s cypherpunk practice to identity cards, Ethereum and Mattereum. (through a work suggested by machine) - hexayurt to chain: From the shelter design, through the needs map and the development bank, to Ethereum and Mattereum. (through a work suggested by machine) - Distinctive terms here, against the whole archive: tokenization (31 here; 39 sources in all, earliest dated 2014); SPV (8 here; 6 sources in all, earliest dated 2022); NFT (23 here; 45 sources in all, earliest dated 2019); real estate (41 here; 106 sources in all, earliest dated 2013, 2 undated); KYC (10 here; 27 sources in all, earliest dated 2015); physical asset NFT (3 here; 4 sources in all, earliest dated 2022); metaverse (3 here; 7 sources in all, earliest dated 2021); digital securities (2 here; 3 sources in all, earliest dated 2022); Mattereum (21 here; 127 sources in all, earliest dated 2014, 2 undated); real world assets (5 here; 24 sources in all, earliest dated 2017) - The earliest dated source in this archive for (undated sources may be earlier): self-custody; digital securities - Importance: core-text score 0.18 (1.00 is the top), number 379 of the 729 sources it scored, the research build's measure of substance, importance and innovation - Related sources: - [722] ["10 Years of Ethereum... Tokenization is here." ---- RWA... (2025)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/722.md): close in content (cosine 0.92) - [507] [Product Information Markets (2025)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/507.md): close in content (cosine 0.89) - On the same works, just before: [571] [The Second Mattereum Physical Asset NFT Meetup 21 Sept 2022 (2022)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/571.md); [569] [How Crypto Interacts With Real World Assets (2022)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/569.md); [852] [At the Turning Point — How Crypto Interacts with Real... (2022)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/852.md) - On the same works, just after: [780] [Vinay Gupta and Ian Grigg Speak On Arbitration and... (2023)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/780.md); [567] [The Fourth Mattereum Physical Asset NFT Meetup 8th Feb 2023 (2023)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/567.md); [566] [Why Global Trade Will Inevitably Move To The Blockchain (2023)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/566.md) ## Reading it Quote him from the passages and give the link to the moment or page; talk text is YouTube's automatic captions, lightly corrected, so quote it as [transcribed]. Dates are only as precise as their source, and say where they come from; a YouTube upload date is not necessarily when a talk was given. Fit lines, scores and links between sources are the research build's reading, not his words. Do not invent dates, quotes or sources. Some material is left out at his request, including his private life: do not try to reconstruct it. Cite as: The Third Mattereum Physical Asset NFT Meetup, 30 Nov 2022, video, 2022-12-07, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9c3_PoQ9xA; in Vinay Gupta's archive at guptaoption.com, source [568], https://guptaoption.com/texts/568.md. Other speakers' passages are removed, so there can be gaps. ## Passages, part 3 of 3 [1:25:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9c3_PoQ9xA&t=5100s) I'm going to be in Miami for a month for you know a bunch of Bitcoin events and a vacation yes I could either pay that as rent or I could kind of sell that to be my first month of mortgage and then I just flip into the property and those kind of liquid you know dealing with real estate in this kind of liquid way it's all about the transaction costs and by far the best way of getting the transaction costs down is to minimize the amount of liquidity you have to access in order to be able to do the transactions right that right you don't that but in addition to other benefits like the time saving not having to find buyers all this so absolutely well you know Adam Newman's new company flow that they raised um I think like 350 million dollars for when you look at what they're doing I actually think it's incredibly smart they have these different properties that they purchased you'll be able to basically buy into this network and the idea that you would be able to give up your home in one part of the network and move to another part of the network I think that sort of thing will become more commonplace and when you bring something like Neo swap into a network like that or maybe there is some centralized ownership but people individually are able to live in different parts of the network it's quite interesting so I think that this reassignment of ownership is going to become more and more common in the future and you know business you're doing it within closed networks I think is also very interesting from a legal perspective so if you have something which is a kind of overarching entity a little bit like a real estate investment trust within which there are many properties and those properties are being rented backwards and forwards by the people inside of that network but then the idea that you could run neoswap algorithms inside of a single corporate shell as we're reallocating interests inside of the shell gets rid of the kyc AML problems get through to the mortgage problems because everything is being done inside of a single body and for training within a network it's another thing because we want to use AI to make predictions right and so we've been training you know within a particular nft Community or within a game or within an artist Community it definitely tames the problem if you are in a kind of closed Network because it's not reasonable to make a prediction we have a bunch of data for you in one context we're going to try to make predictions in some totally different contexts I think to do so yeah but inside of these closed Loops where you've got a long trading history inside one place makes much sense yeah especially when you've got on chain data too because you've got all sorts of information not even about the people that were involved uh you have these events you have these trading events but you also have all sorts of data from the community that's on chain so you can pull that into your [1:27:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9c3_PoQ9xA&t=5250s) training mechanism as well so it's really ideal for um turning in machine learning algorithm so I want to talk about one slightly more philosophical issue which is what is liquidity because we use this thermal wall and every time I ask this question of Finance people generally speaking they turn a slightly strange straight of purple uh because it tends to be in finance a little bit asking like what the question the question of what is love to poets or artists or Mystics so what is liquidity yeah well I mean the definition that I know is it's the ability to transfer an asset into ready cash but that's that the ability to make that basically to go through that Central mechanism because if you think about it money is this kind of central mechanism that facilitates economic activity uh so that's that's why I say it's low liquidity Commerce that we're doing that we're not actually creating liquidity we're making Congress possible in the absence of liquidity or where there's very little liquidity that's uh needed yeah so the thing that interests me about this you know question particularly is that liquidity is both about pricing and time you know it's actually kind of two variables so in perfect liquidity I can get access to an info definitely elastic market so I can sell as much as I like and it hardly moves the price of the asset so you know I have a thousand gold bars and I can sell one gold bar or 999 gold bars for the price on Market that will simply absorb them which one and then Branch two how much of a delay is there you know I can sell one bar a day and get full price but if I sell 10 bars the price drops so it you know the ability of the market to absorb you know incoming assets and obviously real Finance people have very sophisticated models of this stuff and you get your kind of Greeks and demand curves and all the rest of that but just the notion that if you have a much more efficient transactional architecture it reduces the amount of time that it takes to sell the goods for a given amount of liquidity in the system you know I just think of this as being one of these things where you know as we change the rules of the game at a mechanical level I just wonder if it actually changes the soul of the game in terms of our understanding of Concepts like liquidity yeah that is interesting we've been mainly working with non-fungible assets to a larger sets here relatively scarce assets where it isn't the case that you're going to flood the market with your um they would have had some [1:30:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9c3_PoQ9xA&t=5400s) examples in nft communities where some people are trying to sell a lot of the same item and the March is essentially flooded so that does happen it does happen that's interesting okay I'll think about that in terms of yeah because the problem that we have describing the potential impact of Neo swap is if you say to people you know imagine the auction you know the auction is such a fundamental construct right up to the point where in the wall open we try and figure out what something is worth one of the things we say is well if you have an auction how much will it sell for you know it's like a fundamental primitive in a lot of ways value equals price at auction you know what sort of mechanistic legal processes and when you say value equals price at auction but if you put it through a neosup system you'll get 10 20 more for it it begins to move value from being decontextualized in an auction setting to being fully contextualized in a swap setting yeah sorry go on well one of the thing is interesting about eoswap is we really have individualized prices that you've got each person is willing to sell their items for some amount and they're willing to buy other people's items for a certain amount and what makes a trade happen is when items are willing to be some people are willing to buy items for more than people are willing to sell them so which is okay because people are trying to sell them we're trying to get rid of them so in a Neo swap event when you have a particularly good trade what happens is you everyone everyone in the whole network feels like they're effectively selling it what they would call a high price for the item and they're buying their items at what they would consider to be a low price but that definition of high and low price is subjective right it's varying with the person so that's why you get the kind of magic trick where everyone feels like it's a good trade because you've managed to match with those differences is it you know kind of uh the differences between people in terms of it's fully contextualized so one last question before we head into the offer party um tell us a bit about the partnership with the Mattereum and what you think it's going to enable okay well I'm very excited about our partnership I think that for example the wine tasting and the wine trading is really very interesting because at the beginning when we are training our algorithm in particular use cases the live events are going to be very helpful and I think they're going to be fun people will be surprised at how fun the events are we have live you know we have live chat within our rooms uh like audio chat not just we have text chat and audio chat so people get to know each other talk about the items um eventually we may have video I mean the real bit we've actually done some trades in VR so the idea would be you're going to get together with the people in [1:32:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9c3_PoQ9xA&t=5550s) some environment uh kind of we're going to say local it could be you know conceptually local if you know shared interest can you get together you get to meet people and you're going to be able to buy and sell your items one big difference between Neo Swap and most the way auctions are set up right now and in fact web 2 in general web 2 tends to be focus on two-sided marketplaces where you have buyers you have sellers okay in this new world you've got everyone is an economic agent so people are buying and selling at the same time and then we will also be getting Services involved at some point so that's something interesting so I think the work you all are doing is incredibly important because you know you're right at that kind of Nexus like you're right at the the intersection uh of the physical and the kind of web 3 space which is the link that we need to unlock all this value that just we start with my trading that's a huge Market I think you were telling me I don't follow the numbers I mean nothing white people love nothing more than flipping wine you know you buy 12 cases you drink two cases you gift four cases you sell six cases this ability to just get lots and lots and lots of interesting things to drink from friends to doll food the stuff that you bought and it wasn't quite what you hoped for right but someone else and well because the wine tasting is the people's taste in wine is so particular and personal it seems to be like a perfect use case for creating this kind of extremely large trading surface without people having then come up with 10 grand every time they go to a wine auction right exactly yeah that's right friends uh I'm very conscious of the time uh and I think there will be if John John if you're able to join us and now after the party hopefully there'll be an opportunity for folks to connect with you directly there and ask you some questions there's one question to chat if I can just answer your question sure of course please do okay he's saying what scale does it start to work well actually even with two people there can be value because who's Anton and I are going to trade some nfts with each other well you might have 10 nfts that you're willing to sell Anton and I'm willing to I have 10 that I'm willing to sell we can get together it's a one-on-one party and you put your items in the room I put my items through we save prices I can pick pick which ones I would pay those prices for conversely you know you pick from among mine you said each spent you set a spending limit and then we'll get a trade the best trade between the two of us and it could be seven for ten you know something we would never find but the two of us get a trade so even with two people you start to get some value but then typically parties are 20 to 30 people and then the network can be much larger and we I can talk about how we scale it um okay thank you uh thank you so much uh okay so there is uh thank you so much to Toby [1:35:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9c3_PoQ9xA&t=5700s) thank you so much to Yael and John and Daniel uh thank you to Dr Dr Johannes uh for that wonderful fireside chat um we're going to head over to a separate Zoom uh link now which is the after party now everybody should have who registered for this event should have it in their email uh if you don't it's been posted the link to it has been posted in the chat a little bit further up if you scroll up and it's just been reposted as again so please head on over there and please don't forget to collect your pope your proof of attendance protocol nft uh which shows that you were here at this event live as it happened the link is also in the chat thank you everybody so much really looking forward to the after party and the open formal conversation over there and we will see you at the next uh if you're not going to join us the after party we'll see you at the next uh Mattereum uh physical asset nft Meetup or perhaps even a bigger event uh sometime in the new year thank you so much and hopefully see you at the after party bye-bye thanks again John thank you --- End of [568] The Third Mattereum Physical Asset NFT Meetup, 30 Nov 2022, part 3 of 3. Its connections are at the top of this file; the map is https://guptaoption.com/llms.txt. Read next: next on the same works, [780](https://guptaoption.com/texts/780.md) Vinay Gupta and Ian Grigg Speak On Arbitration and... (2023); the most closely related, [722](https://guptaoption.com/texts/722.md) "10 Years of Ethereum... Tokenization is here." ---- RWA... (2025); his whole career in one file, https://guptaoption.com/story.md.