# The Third Mattereum Physical Asset NFT Meetup, 30 Nov 2022 (part 2 of 3)

> One source from the archive of Vinay Gupta's work at guptaoption.com, as plain text for AI agents: [568], part 2 of 3. Vinay Gupta, exponential humanitarian. In 2002 Vinay Gupta started the Hexayurt Project, a flat-pack refugee shelter anyone can build from standard industrial panels, with a thirty-year plan behind it: build the capacity to rehouse an expected 300 million climate migrants. Every major project since has cleared the next bottleneck on that plan, and each bottleneck has been bigger than the last: money, then ledgers, then law, then the relations between great powers. Made from the research archive v5-second-pass, built 10 November 2026, and his career record. The map of the whole archive is https://guptaoption.com/llms.txt, and any source [id] is at https://guptaoption.com/texts/<id>.md. This file's connections are below, then his passages.

## Where this source sits

- Source: video, 2022-12-07 (YouTube upload date), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9c3_PoQ9xA. Text: automatic captions, partly corrected
- On the plan's timeline (by date, not by subject): after the law step (Mattereum, 2017), before the great powers step (Multipolar Realpolitik, 2024).
- How it fits the plan (the research build's reading): Ecosystem around the contracting layer.
- Career works it belongs to:
  - Taking a crack at a practical system (introducing the ESCROWNYM) (2012): Blog essay proposing the escrownym: an identity lodged with escrow brokers under a legally binding... (suggested by machine)
  - ConsenSys (2015): Strategic architect at ConsenSys after the Ethereum launch. (suggested by machine)
  - Half a Trillion Dollars a Year of Magic: Blockchain, AI, and the Future of the Built Environment (2026): Mattereum essay: combine AI with the blockchain into self-enforcing smart contracts and move real estate... (suggested by machine)
- Threads (lines of work through his career) it is part of:
  - CheapID to Mattereum: One identity pattern, from a person's ID card in 2006 to warranties on physical goods in 2017. (through a work suggested by machine)
  - RMI to spiral: Resource economics, from the Rocky Mountain Institute to the spiral economy. (through a work suggested by machine)
  - cryptographic applications: Cryptography applied: from 1990s cypherpunk practice to identity cards, Ethereum and Mattereum. (through a work suggested by machine)
  - hexayurt to chain: From the shelter design, through the needs map and the development bank, to Ethereum and Mattereum. (through a work suggested by machine)
- Distinctive terms here, against the whole archive: tokenization (31 here; 39 sources in all, earliest dated 2014); SPV (8 here; 6 sources in all, earliest dated 2022); NFT (23 here; 45 sources in all, earliest dated 2019); real estate (41 here; 106 sources in all, earliest dated 2013, 2 undated); KYC (10 here; 27 sources in all, earliest dated 2015); physical asset NFT (3 here; 4 sources in all, earliest dated 2022); metaverse (3 here; 7 sources in all, earliest dated 2021); digital securities (2 here; 3 sources in all, earliest dated 2022); Mattereum (21 here; 127 sources in all, earliest dated 2014, 2 undated); real world assets (5 here; 24 sources in all, earliest dated 2017)
- The earliest dated source in this archive for (undated sources may be earlier): self-custody; digital securities
- Importance: core-text score 0.18 (1.00 is the top), number 379 of the 729 sources it scored, the research build's measure of substance, importance and innovation
- Related sources:
  - [722] ["10 Years of Ethereum... Tokenization is here." ---- RWA... (2025)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/722.md): close in content (cosine 0.92)
  - [507] [Product Information Markets (2025)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/507.md): close in content (cosine 0.89)
- On the same works, just before: [571] [The Second Mattereum Physical Asset NFT Meetup 21 Sept 2022 (2022)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/571.md); [569] [How Crypto Interacts With Real World Assets (2022)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/569.md); [852] [At the Turning Point — How Crypto Interacts with Real... (2022)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/852.md)
- On the same works, just after: [780] [Vinay Gupta and Ian Grigg Speak On Arbitration and... (2023)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/780.md); [567] [The Fourth Mattereum Physical Asset NFT Meetup 8th Feb 2023 (2023)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/567.md); [566] [Why Global Trade Will Inevitably Move To The Blockchain (2023)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/566.md)

## Reading it

Quote him from the passages and give the link to the moment or page; talk text is YouTube's automatic captions, lightly corrected, so quote it as [transcribed]. Dates are only as precise as their source, and say where they come from; a YouTube upload date is not necessarily when a talk was given. Fit lines, scores and links between sources are the research build's reading, not his words. Do not invent dates, quotes or sources. Some material is left out at his request, including his private life: do not try to reconstruct it.

Cite as: The Third Mattereum Physical Asset NFT Meetup, 30 Nov 2022, video, 2022-12-07, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9c3_PoQ9xA; in Vinay Gupta's archive at guptaoption.com, source [568], https://guptaoption.com/texts/568.md.

Other speakers' passages are removed, so there can be gaps.

## Passages, part 2 of 3
[45:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9c3_PoQ9xA&t=2700s) I might tokenize a building that I own um and have all of the data relevant to that asset on the blockchain and I might do that because you know one day I may decide that I want to take a mortgage out on it and in this newfangled world that we're envisioning you could take a mortgage out in five minutes and you can retire it 30 seconds later because all the data is there this asset is a known quantity uh all of the metadata that describes the rent the incomes expenses and the encumbrances is available and I can permission that for a lender in a second and they could put a lien on that asset take their first position and lend with confidence um and so in our data architecture what we're trying to to create is this model where the the asset is a nft it's an 1155 an hour in our structure and inside of it are what we're describing as these fleets these fleets are essentially a bunch of 721 contracts that are bundled together with a very specific uses right so for example leases might be a fleet and you have every single lease for this property that lives inside of the 1155 as 721s and every piece of metadata that describes those leases lives within that asset and so it starts with scanned copies of this which may be an ipfs they may be on some you know web touring or elsewhere but eventually our view is that this all becomes byte code that some point in the future we reach sort of like the blockchain singularity or something and all of these contracts become reduced to actual byte code that can be executed on chain immediately um and that's that's sort of where this ends and we think at that point we've achieved the kind of liquidity that that we're all chasing here um in this space we've achieved the ability to make the liquid assets completely transparent and as liquid as they could potentially be I think also I mean this is going to be very jurisdiction by jurisdiction it's easy for me to imagine that say uh Dubai or possibly the Netherlands would get integration between the blockchains and the National Property registers early uh in other jurisdictions it might be a little slower but it would be very very helpful if you had you know digital signatures or documents coming directly out of the property registers that could

[47:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9c3_PoQ9xA&t=2850s) then be referenced on chain and verified on trained because you could verify the signatures and source of the documents um those kind of um document-centric handoffs uh about five years ago I did five years maybe a little longer I did the first cut of the national broadcasting strategy for Dubai very much focused around the idea of the government as the provider of a document stream with digital signatures with um a certificate revocation list on that document stream and that document stream then becomes something that could be kind of seamlessly absorbed into the smart contract ecosystem uh because it just makes sense right if you could get government documents with digital signatures on them and you can verify the digital signatures on chain it allows for a very very tight very structured very neat way of doing these kind of handoffs right there's also the the opposite view of that though the name which is you know first of all yes I agree with you um and that's our objective we're actually working with municipalities in America to bring those documents title ND directly on chain now to assist with the tokenization not the fractionalization um so that practicalization can move with some alacrity but I had a very interesting conversation recently and that's kind of changed my my thoughts on the need for governments to be that sort of firewall and be that validator of that information which is you know you're a hedge fund and you're going to buy 10 000 single-family rental properties the reason why you need the title and the deed the reason why that's important for you is because you want perfect title you want an insurable claim on this asset but if there's some other entity that is willing to do that for you it's it's not as necessary right like they're absolutely absolutely I think we're approaching the point where there are groups that will take the blockchain as the point of Truth over the municipality and so in that case these transactions will happen on you know balconies platform Daniels and Miles platform and then the municipalities will print this to their County records sometime later and nobody will care because you've already received your claim on the asset on the blockchain your value for it yeah I mean this gets into some very delicate issues jurisdiction by jurisdiction about the nature of Interest right if you have an interest in the property where is the interest in the property recorded if the property is in an SPV then the interest can be recorded at the SPV level if the property is on you know in a jurisdiction where the government

[50:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9c3_PoQ9xA&t=3000s) maintains a register of interest you can draw out the interest there and you know this thing of whether we could get information from the government to the chain in an authenticated way in One Direction or from the chain to the government and the other you the bridge infrastructure there is basically wall firms and spvs you know if I have a law firm that says I looked at the government record I verified what it is in fact we did this right now we have a Mattereum has a property which is being sold by one of our clients Mattereum.com land you can see it and the the guarantee of title is from a law firm that has basically examined the situation and says right we guarantee this is clean title and if it's not you can claim against us you know we're making that guarantee and at that point the difference between a wall firm standing on putting its insurance on the line in the state doing it really for all intents and purposes there's not that much difference in terms of your trust in the title because you're fully covered if something goes wrong and that is a paradigm where you know in in digital to digital bridging you typically have a pile of money on both ends of the bridge that basically acts at stake when the items cross I think you might see an architecture which is a pile of liability on the real world side of the bridge and a pile of escrow on the digital side of the bridge and then I just walk backwards and forwards anchored by escrow on one side and live conventional liability on the other that's right it's instead of trying to prosecute truth we're trying to prosecute a product a financial problem where's the money correct where's the money once you divorce yourself in truth and you start Prosecuting something like profit Things become much easier everything becomes probabilistic and at that point as long as you're pretty sure you have yeah absolutely um so let's talk a little bit about what we see in terms of the future of the industry right you know we're in a position where the blockchain industry has run off the rails in terms of you know trust in centralized infrastructure uh lots of discussions about what happens next and how do we prevent another FTX happening trans deep transparency the model that we've been kind of taking the Mattereum is that basically the problem is that we've had a phenomenally powerful transactional architecture doing kind of crappy transactions you know the actual mechanistic software level has been relatively trustworthy nothing substantial has gone wrong people have occasionally uploaded buggy smart contracts and gotten a hit but the platforms have not been hacked in Forever

[52:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9c3_PoQ9xA&t=3150s) and now this question is how do we get high quality assets and high quality transactions onto these high quality rails and that was how we kind of framed it um could I go sort of a round table and just get everybody's thoughts on that and then maybe we'll wrap Yale yeah so in terms of mistrust of tradify I really don't think that that's a thing frankly I mean people still mistrust crypto much more than their Bank by the way it really depends which country you live in and the same thing as discussion earlier about the title registry in the United States I don't think anybody will say you know I don't trust the U.S government to you know uh to keep my house and the title in my name whereas you can probably miss you know you could mistrust the due diligence down in the title when you buy a home and that's why you have a title insurance so I I would say in the US we're like decades away from having that on the blockchain because you just don't need it but in countries in Africa or some other places where you know somebody can just burn down the paper a registry of some people's homes then blockchain is better than anything that they have today right so tell a question Alternatives always in terms of Trad Phi and traditional institutions again in the west I think you know banks are still the most trustworthy institution even with all the failures and fraud and whatever there is in the traditional world you know FTX comes and the long line of fraudulent organizations are super traditional right so um but again I don't think people mistrust Tourette fine anyway or or Western governments um and one last thing that I wanted to kind of mention is that sometimes when we say tokenization of assets it might be a little bit of a misnomer because um it's not like we're taking at home and like putting it in a metaverse which is what it sounds like or or turning it into an nft or um you know now it's magically treatable and or whatever or even the title when there's actually a process um through which you could in fact use an nft as a as a very valid way to transfer title in space like Wyoming right um but basically when we say tokenization we usually mean token is a

[55:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9c3_PoQ9xA&t=3300s) we usually mean putting contracts smart contracts is it again of the day as a contract so creating tradable contracts um that's mainly what is done today in the concept concept of organization and when we say this everything like things like um discussing whether real estate should be tokenized through an SPV or not it doesn't matter then it becomes a database problem right so we are tokenization of contract how do you verify the ownership of the asset which contract you're selling yeah right so if you have an SPV it's super easy you go to the you know registry you know the problem the register is not on the blockchain so what do you do so what do we do at solid Block in fact we you know we'll go and issue accusep as a you know just in general if you want you can go to the SEC website and reg D like it's a special regulation you go to the SCC website you see all the trades you know again it you you still have to go and check the registry online for the corporation so if it's on the blockchain like in Georgia of course it's much easier for us um if it's on you know like you said some other jurisdictions where uh you can record uh record liens or record ownership outside of an SPV and it becomes a data problem how do you verify the contract at the end of the day um tokenization of asset tokenization of contracts one thing toxication of data which I think John also spoke about placing a bunch of things it I guess we could also say it's tokenization but at the end of the day you're moving all of the asset from web 2 to web3 so you tokenize the data associated with the asset which just basically means that anybody can go on a public blockchain or maybe permission maybe private with certain access they can go and they can actually verify data related to that asset on the blockchain right so that's actually very very useful um and so we can tokenize different aspects associated with the asset right we can kind of have to be clear on what we are tokenizing well in fact the UK sorry if I might jump jump in there in fact the UK local Mission has just put out not just a couple of months ago put out a very heavy consultation document by over 500 pages and one of the about uh about how we look uh how we view these kinds of assets within the law and one of the proposals is that the that we

[57:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9c3_PoQ9xA&t=3450s) create a new class of asset called a data asset this is how they're describing it so I thought a new class of digital assets or digital asset physical asset data asset so that's that's the proposal it's interesting we've got to look so I thought that we'll just add that too because it sounded like what you were saying was uh in that direction interesting yeah that document is huge 550 Pages massive like even the table of contents it's like wow this is I mean it's it's incredibly subtle and sophisticated thinking uh and it's going to be bleeding through into UK well over time but this also puts me very much in a mind of mirrors uh the you know the the data system that they use in the states for tracking mortgages and the mortgages all get mortgage mortgage identification numbers stuff like this and you know that to me is exactly the kind of resource or if there was a nice clean Gateway between MERS and the blockchain you could basically use mergers and Oracle you would be able to get very very very useful data for de-risking transactions and they could then take a transactional fee every time they're providing that data in a kind of registered way that's done that's that's the dart system that's meant to replace MERS all of the sort of complexity with with actually accessing the merge information um and that's being done on the provenance chain um right now as a matter of fact go to who do you think the uh time scale was for that to go live and is that something is merge involved in building Dart or yeah so dark so Dart was uh an invention that came out of the the founders of provenance uh for the mortgage space and I think if I recall correctly they have several billions of dollars of mortgages already uh recorded on the provenance chain using Dart today so um and so you know for my view it's the the the the quality of this data is what's going to inform the liquidity and we want as much of it as possible and so to Yale's Point yes we need that data to be digitized and tokenized as the starting point so that we can apply smart contracts right and smart contracts are incredible because old contracts tell you what's going what you would like to happen smart contracts tell you what is going to happen and if they're done correctly and you apply some more contracts to this technology to these nfts with very good data to yell's very good point you don't need these

[1:00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9c3_PoQ9xA&t=3600s) regulations because these these assets will operate as God intended as they were designed to operate and so that also makes it uh you know a low bar to meet the regulatory requirements of any jurisdiction because theoretically we should be operating so far above that level with a completely transparent in real time high quality data publicly uh available queryable blockchain that those regulations are very easy to hit but the one place you want to disagree with the IL is I don't think you should trust your government ever I don't think you should have to trust anyone that doesn't mean that we're trustless but we should be trust less if we can and uh there are you know at these municipalities that we're speaking to today 18th century titles in vaults literal pieces of paper you have to put white gloves on where like a you know a bow tie to go in and touch um that are documents that are titled indeed documents for some of these assets and we're in the process of trying to figure out how to actually start to migrate these these things didn't get migrated with web one and the municipalities that we're dealing with did their last updates on their technology on their databases in 1984 with Cobalt as the language that that was that was used which is what my father used when I was a kid in the 90s so there's a big leap here and I think there's a lot of value in digitizing tokenizing these assets then applying these smart contracts and creating trust less not trustless systems uh that that I think will benefit everybody yeah and the the tricks of all this is always garbage and garbage out you know the the fear that we've always had is going to wind up with the data layer on the blockchain gives you lovely descriptions of how everything is meant to be and then you get kind of the Greek problem where you turn up in the village and you say hey the property registry says this they're like yeah we haven't updated that in seven years because every time you update the national register you have to pay taxes and actually we have an informal local Ledger that tells you who owns well and all the transactions are done in cash you know we don't know why somebody sold you the property on the national register we would never do that that's crazy and you know that thing of like how we maintain the link to ground truth the Mattereum approach that we've always taken with this is that it's a liability question right what exists on the chain is a set of liabilities if ground truth is not as it's stated to be and then the dispute resolution mechanisms that we put so much time into are how you square up the ground truth yeah you buy something Based on data on chain turns out in

[1:02:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9c3_PoQ9xA&t=3750s) practice the building is not there somebody has to be carrying the bag on that and what you really want in chain is a very specific understanding of who exactly is carrying the bag and verifiable stolvency that they can pay their bills well because otherwise how do we Square reality up Daniel yeah and and I totally agree with that um and I do think you know with with this FTX debacle and and some of the you know downfall we're seeing out of this there is definitely going to be resistance to uh trusted entities and centralized entities with any sort of token um I really don't see there being a point uh in the near future where where you can fully eliminate that you know with uh with land and with real estate uh there has to be a legal owner um and kind of a big piece for us that Universal transferability I don't think that you can kind of fully take advantage of the the existing DeFi ecosystem without that so you know you can't have a property that was mortgaged and then mortgaged five times over lent against five times over you know default have that chain of transactions happen and hit like a kyc accreditation wall each time so I do think you know as John said earlier uh the tokenized piece of it being one for one really isn't a security you know there's nothing that's happening um from a perspective of like increasing the the profitability um or the value of that property besides kind of the more macro effects of just the the real estate market in general um so with our tokens you know that is one essential piece is that uh to buy one of these homes you need to be able to avoid kind of the kyc accreditation and needs to be universally transferable um and kind of with the the standard that we've released there are fixed requirements for owning real estate so kind of the way that it's it's laid out is uh we've taken an ERC 721 and we've added kind of a hashed operating agreement that has all of those legal rights uh kind of structured in there immutable without consent for both the token holder and the administrator there's the ability to change that legal ownership of the administrator and then a payment mechanism and a repossession mechanism right because if that's that property is changing ownership as quickly as you know instantaneous transactions then the blockchain happen and you need to be able to pay property taxes you need to be able to pay you know required utilities there needs to be some you know trusted component uh to that

[1:05:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9c3_PoQ9xA&t=3900s) because you can't have that updated you know internationally seven times over in 10 seconds you know um so I think that that will remain in effect and like you know the Holy Grail is at a point where these systems like John said are eventually adopted and then looked back on by whether they be you know property Registries um or kind of Commissioners offices for basically looking at the truth of who who does on what um but right now it's going to have to have kind of that that legal component that's attached to it um but hopefully you know where we kind of see this going is uh the other component we have is that we have a set of nine legal requirements um that are need to be met to meet the standard and how you meet those whether it's you know an SPD with Wyoming Dow or some other way is kind of irrelevant it's more about meeting those requirements and we really see those being kind of componentized and then people being able to you know look at a piece of property on a blockchain under the standard and being able to see you know what are the standard components to that operating agreement you know what are their liabilities what are their legal recourse you know how do they basically approach that in the event that they do want to claim ownership of this property uh there is a default Etc and that being much more easy to understand and kind of as this gets adopted hopefully you know there will be standard operating agreements um that are much easier to verify so kind of like template agreements that everybody understands like you've got for say is does right now you know these entire industry uses the same mechanism okay you're doing real estate inside of the EU you're using either contract one contract or contract 3 for repossession almost like a modular wall approach yes super interesting guys you got to be careful about selling these nfts without kyc that automatically makes it not a property sale it's property sale always involves in the US KOA C and ml especially online by Brokers or anything else that's number one accreditation yeah you don't need that because you are so it's not a security but it is still a fine it's an instrument um oh well it is an asset you're saying it's an asset it's not an instrument right if it was an instrument then you would have to securitize it so I would just check that because then you know when later on you come and describe me and there's you know you're saying it's an asset but asset buyers have to go

[1:07:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9c3_PoQ9xA&t=4050s) through certain things yes but there's for cash buyers in the US their finra has put in place some requirements on source of funds in kyc I think particularly like San Francisco on New York City Washington DC Baltimore a few places um but for the general United States uh there's no kyc element no AML it for purchasing property okay fascinating yes are there any questions from the audience because we're at Rapids has arrived yeah I'm very conscious of the time uh thank you everybody um there are a couple of uh questions uh from the audience that I I noticed um there was one quite early on from Matt Bishop I don't know whether he's still on or not uh but uh the band is have touched on this a little bit but perhaps we could look at it again Matt asks if you are tokenizing real estate are you also lobbying brackets at least in the U.S so the contract receives the tax benefits of for example depreciation for the new owner all stepped up bases upon inheritance or are we just trading LLC interests which are effectively personal property no you're getting you're getting the tax benefits as an LP would in any LP interest in in real estate so this is this is the big difference between what we're proposing here and going and buying a Reit for example you know when you purchase a share of a re you're being taxed on the corporate level so you're getting you know Delaware C Corp 21 then you're paying your personal taxes after that and you don't get all of those benefits um you also are getting interest in multiple properties and you're paying the expenses gsna for whatever that re-ownership structure looks like to go Source those assets and do those deals what we're all describing here is individual assets that you're purchasing a fractionalized share of and getting the tax advantages um as an outpick and with ours um it's a bit different so you know this is something that hasn't been designed before and the kind of the nfts token structure that we have you know it's not technically property it's really a right to use that property um so the the Dows are actually paid they pay taxes as a corporation uh they're tax neutral or tax negative so there's no uh tax liability there kind of on a yearly basis um and then it would make sense

[1:10:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9c3_PoQ9xA&t=4200s) primarily not for a primary residence but most likely an investment property because they're primary residence uh you know you can write off the 200 uh the first 250 000 in capital gains on your taxes you can also write off your interest payments on your taxes and obviously you know we can't compete with the US government and provide those same benefits um so it would basically be taxed uh on the sale as a capital gain on the asset right so it's just on the nft itself there's no pass-through benefits or taxation benefits um with the way that we've structured it thank you yeah do you have anything to add to that no no no no thank you very good we have one more question I think for this panel and then we can move on um so the question is it's from uh Ben uh on it's it's in chat and the question is how can projects working in the real estate tokenization space collaborate with each other on common standards and schema uh meetups like this are a great start is there anything more formal who would like who would like to study I mean because folks developing standards we've got people obviously who have been in the space for a long time John yeah I've been I've been trying to to get a real estate nft standards we've gone for a while I'm just gonna I'm gonna put it out here right now um anybody who wants to join um let's do it let's just put it together now uh Daniel I want to try to use your standard for certain transactions to your point I think that the way that this standardizes is they're sort of like these open Zeppelin off the shelf you know standards that you can grab when that use case presents itself and so I think yours is is fantastic for what you're you're trying to use it for and I'd like to use that I'd like to add to it if you're open to that and um you know invite you guys and anybody else to to help join us and to create these standards yeah the the standard we posted um you know it's it's in the draft stage and they say you know if you want a question answered on the internet don't post the question you know post the wrong answer um so we posted that answer um and uh it's up to you and everyone kind of attending this to go you know review it give feedback um improve it you know it's it's definitely like we're looking for critical feedback on it right now yeah we've been looking at it right the reason we're gonna just noticed from the perspective of using it for real estate but we think it might also serve uh uh quite nicely for vaulted assets like gold you know with gold you've got to do

[1:12:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9c3_PoQ9xA&t=4350s) things like continue to pay the storage fees you have to know who's going to pay the storage fee and there's obviously all kinds of legal complexity about making sure that your gold is protected in case bankruptcy etc etc etc um so I think you know we're going to come back here with some feedback on that but it may be that it actually has utility outside of real estate because almost any physical asset has most of those attributes yeah that's kind of how we we designed it we designed it specifically for real estate and if it can be extrapolated upon to you know be improved for other assets uh that's awesome and I think like with really how it is designed it's it's non-kyc non-aml for the transfer of of that ownership but obviously you know if we own a parent company that owns you know a house and you're gonna come occupy that house and you have to get the keys then there have to be some element of us basically understanding who you are to send you those keys right but it allows for that free transfer of ownership through you know any D5 protocol any lending protocol Etc which is a really important piece to it but yeah also John we will definitely uh be joining uh any any events happy to to co-host with you um and kind of set up a committee um ideally you know at some point where maybe here we go uh yeah uh anything to add on the standards yeah I mean we're working super hard on the standards and we um are auditing you know we're using a third party audit companies um to to take a look and the problem with real estate is that you have a lot of different models and so smart contracts are super non-standard with with uh contracts right because as many contracts you have or types of contracts as many standards you have with the ownership nft might be different even though you might own through an sbv or other otherwise and so on so forth for us whenever you know they're probably like five different models major models of Real Estate and um you know Equity I leveraged let's say debt and you know and and so on so forth right um and then there's a fund model which is actually probably going to be our most used standard and that one is um highly complex now that said I actually don't think the question is about that I I think or maybe I can turn it into a different

[1:15:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9c3_PoQ9xA&t=4500s) question um number one we're gonna pretty soon I was thinking about doing a meet up a solo block Meetup to show what kind of Standards we came up with and we actually um are creating our own like um just one contract is actually one traditional contract there's maybe three or four smart contracts that we are putting on chain and so um you know we're kind of creating our own standards as we go and I would love for someone to come and review them and look at vulnerabilities and issues um that said there's still a lot of unresolved um industry um directions that are super uncertain right now like what's going to be with kyc ML accreditation like it seems like there should there will be some sort of a few D5 platforms where you can come and get kind of id'd like a did platforms then we'll be able to read from a smart contract let's say that right part instead of using our own kind of uh platform KOA CML and then placing um this token in your wallet that's the first thing a second thing is burning tokens for example it's a super centralized feature and that's something we've pioneered back with aspencoin now it doesn't help anyone is there a different way to um to reset the tokens and if in an unlikely event of theft what happens if you sold an asset you know again burning tokens is like an Ico era process that just you know should not be happening because you wouldn't burn your house when you sell it and you wouldn't burn your contract either right you kind of cancel that out so there are lots of these processes that frankly like our devs are sitting there all day long thinking about and it would be great to have a community if you give us a platform like if you give me a link somewhere where we can pose those questions for the community to come and kind of help even help us out or together you know come to some sort of conclusion that would be great for us as well um sorry guys I'm very conscious of the time and uh there's still there's still there's still a little bit a little bit more to go so thank you very much to our panelists vinay fantastic John one sentence you're Midway through one sentence you don't you don't want to burn the token you want the nft to be the Perpetual infinite digital asset that persists so

[1:17:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9c3_PoQ9xA&t=4650s) it's burned are the the 1404s which are the fundable impressions in that asset so yeah that's the architecture that that I'm going to propose that we are proposing and I'd love to talk to you guys more about that great looking forward to hearing more about that I mean the more we can get the whole kind of physical asset story together on a set of interoperable Standards the easier it's going to be for that industry to expand rapidly which is what we all want and thank you all very much for coming I feel like this was really um phenomenally insightful um really really good thank you thank you so much thank you so much and please stick around for the for the after party and before we move on to the after party uh we have a fireside chat between vinay and John Ennis of uh Neo swap uh John thank you very much for joining us there is John slide and perhaps you can start by saying a little bit about introducing yourself and then when they can ask you a few questions sure okay well thank you for having me thanks everyone for being here so I'm uh Dr John Ennis I'm the CEO of neospap where we are really pioneering a new form of Commerce that takes us Beyond money to a new form of kind of low liquidity Commerce and maybe one of the day gets up here we can show some uh charts to talk about what we're doing but the basic idea is that through a combination of smart contracts and utility estimation we can figure out how do you trade items around how do you conduct complex multi-way trades so that everyone benefits so um maybe beneath if you want to come up here um and we can start talking about it thank you thank you for filling in we've been expecting uh one of those folks from volupt to be here and they have to drop out last minute uh very unfortunate and so last minute we got John back and hi how's it going yeah good excited that we announced our partnership this week so that's great yeah absolutely so I mean let's frame this for people I like to talk about neoswalk in terms of being it's a sort of fundamental economic mechanism design Innovation along the lines of the inventor of the auction centuries ago um so the way that I described folks is like okay so imagine that everybody bids on everything else in an auction and most of the people in the auction are there to sell some things and buy others and they just go around and they attach a value to everything that they're interested in and then the algorithm matches everything to everything and gets everybody the maximum possible value in the transactional cycle everybody agrees on it the trades are

[1:20:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9c3_PoQ9xA&t=4800s) executed and it's one round boom you're done yeah let me let me show actually a chart that would probably happen yeah absolutely here's here's one we've done many of these from thousands of these trades actually so here's a trade involving maybe about a dozen people where you have simultaneous exchange of kind of assets and you know fungible and non-fungible tokens moving around in a way that benefits everyone so there's information gathering stage which can come from events which could be live events that are actually quite fun and multi-day events there could be a standing Market where people list items and people bid on items we actually use AI to predict utilities because one of the issues historically when you try to do this sort of thing is you have very complete information and so we make predictions using AI to fill in the gaps and then we're able to find these trades and you can see that what's different about this and the way that Commerce happens right now is typically people have things they don't want they have to sell them they have to create liquidity there's a huge emphasis we just heard a lot of talk about liquidity in that last session a big need to create liquidity to conduct all liquidity all the time I mean you know and particularly in global recession you know the whole global economic slowdown that we're looking at right now is going to make liquidity absolutely you know you know a premium in all of these Arenas wow so much complexity here so you know when we start looking at physical assets and imagine them flowing over these kind of networks particularly things like real estate you know I can imagine something like this connected to the New York real estate State market right and you know you want to move out your house in Queens and somebody else wants to move into it but you know you don't want to live in their house or Brooklyn in that place of Brooklyn goes to summer ends of Manhattan and you move into the man and you know like right now in the UK we have a lot of you know thinking about things like mortgage chains but in a neosolk world that's not a mortgage chain anymore it's more like a mortgage web and all of the people are kind of shuffling around but it doesn't happen as a very slow process of a buys B by C buys D buys a cells B cells you know C cells D cells it becomes this kind of simultaneous synchronized activity um which looks like it would be so much faster so much more efficient and access to that as an exchange technology seems almost like the point of tokenizing physical assets yes that you have this new much more efficient form of Commerce so it's not just that you know you we turn the thing into an nft and then the nfts are auctioned no no no no no you turn the things into nfts so does

[1:22:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9c3_PoQ9xA&t=4950s) everybody else and then they go through neoso yeah it just seems like such an improved way of doing business that's right and so that's really I mean we think about economic activity right it's about to a large extent reassigning ownership of typically scarce assets for Mutual benefit you know what is a good trade it's typically a trade where people value the things that they get more than the things they give up and so we're solving for that directly instead of going through that Central bottleneck of liquidity we solve directly how do you reassign ownership now maybe you make up the gaps the fungible tokens or currency still plays a role in this universe it's not barter but moving forward from currency so we don't go through the bottleneck we get rid of the Central Market really and we just have this all-sided marketplace where items are moving around much more freely so I think this is something new that web3 really makes possible and it's it's something that I think will be five to ten years from now by revolutionary I'm surprised you put it as long as five to ten years but we're already using it for trading digital Collectibles and there is a market there we are uh we just went live on Solano we'll be live on polygon later this year we we have been live on Stacks we shut that down temporarily to focus on Solana so for digital Collectibles digital art there's already a use case and we're trying to experiment with music that's interesting now we think games are very big use case so we think that there'll be value inside games but when it comes out here of an aspect okay great the reason I say five to ten years is because I do think you talked in that last session about uh some of the issues with the titles you know one of my one of the president of my other company uh lives in La Palma and she's been trying to buy a house for a year she has a great agreement with the owner of the house and there's I guess three courthouses and one of them has a document that calls your house to shed and they need to get the police person out to like look at the house and say it's not a shed okay now that person's been on paternity leave like for the whole year and so it's just giant mess and I think that that mess will just take a while to clean up however you know in the elite Market cleaning the things up and getting rid of those messes and then just plugging the properties right in like you know I always use this example of um you know uh penthouses Miami and every time before Art Basel and every time before you know Bitcoin Miami you get a surge of interest in Miami a whole bunch of people are like Hey we're going to Miami and somebody is like hey I almost kind of wanted a house down there and you wind up with a round of flips before the events because if the transaction costs are cheap enough if

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End of [568] The Third Mattereum Physical Asset NFT Meetup, 30 Nov 2022, part 2 of 3. Its connections are at the top of this file; the map is https://guptaoption.com/llms.txt.