# Gold RWA arrive onchain! (part 2 of 2)

> One source from the archive of Vinay Gupta's work at guptaoption.com, as plain text for AI agents: [559], part 2 of 2. Vinay Gupta, exponential humanitarian. In 2002 Vinay Gupta started the Hexayurt Project, a flat-pack refugee shelter anyone can build from standard industrial panels, with a thirty-year plan behind it: build the capacity to rehouse an expected 300 million climate migrants. Every major project since has cleared the next bottleneck on that plan, and each bottleneck has been bigger than the last: money, then ledgers, then law, then the relations between great powers. Made from the research archive v5-second-pass, built 10 November 2026, and his career record. The map of the whole archive is https://guptaoption.com/llms.txt, and any source [id] is at https://guptaoption.com/texts/<id>.md. This file's connections are below, then his passages.

## Where this source sits

- Source: video, 2024-06-04 (YouTube upload date), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHLenzGvTSU. Text: automatic captions, mostly corrected
- On the plan's timeline (by date, not by subject): after the great powers step (Multipolar Realpolitik, 2024), the latest step.
- How it fits the plan (the research build's reading): Contracting layer products.
- Career works it belongs to:
  - Half a Trillion Dollars a Year of Magic: Blockchain, AI, and the Future of the Built Environment (2026): Mattereum essay: combine AI with the blockchain into self-enforcing smart contracts and move real estate...
  - The Future We Deserve: "Facebook for the Five Billion?" (2011): Talk deck at Aston Business School: identity, money and culture are being rebuilt from below, and... (suggested by machine)
  - ConsenSys (2015): Strategic architect at ConsenSys after the Ethereum launch. (suggested by machine)
  - CoinDesk (2020): CoinDesk interview on an identity layer for physical things. (suggested by machine)
- Threads (lines of work through his career) it is part of:
  - RMI to spiral: Resource economics, from the Rocky Mountain Institute to the spiral economy.
  - CheapID to Mattereum: One identity pattern, from a person's ID card in 2006 to warranties on physical goods in 2017. (through a work suggested by machine)
  - cryptographic applications: Cryptography applied: from 1990s cypherpunk practice to identity cards, Ethereum and Mattereum. (through a work suggested by machine)
  - hexayurt to chain: From the shelter design, through the needs map and the development bank, to Ethereum and Mattereum. (through a work suggested by machine)
- Topics: Gold, stablecoins & asset backing (39%); Property, NFTs & real-estate transactions (33%)
- Distinctive terms here, against the whole archive: Mattereum (54 here; 127 sources in all, earliest dated 2014, 2 undated); USDC (10 here; 17 sources in all, earliest dated 2021); NFT (17 here; 45 sources in all, earliest dated 2019); Swarm (9 here; 29 sources in all, earliest dated 2008); real world assets (8 here; 24 sources in all, earliest dated 2017); real estate (24 here; 106 sources in all, earliest dated 2013, 2 undated); stablecoins (7 here; 26 sources in all, earliest dated 2015); Asset Passport (7 here; 33 sources in all, earliest dated 2017, 2 undated); USDT (4 here; 14 sources in all, earliest dated 2021); global trade (4 here; 30 sources in all, earliest dated 2013)
- The earliest dated source in this archive for (undated sources may be earlier): delivery orders
- Importance: core-text score 0.30 (1.00 is the top), number 247 of the 729 sources it scored, the research build's measure of substance, importance and innovation
- Related sources:
  - [557] [The Future of Real Estate RWA (2024)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/557.md): same career work: Half a Trillion Dollars a Year of Magic: Blockchain, AI, and the Future of the Built Environment
  - [167] [Global real estate rail (2026)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/167.md): same career work: Half a Trillion Dollars a Year of Magic: Blockchain, AI, and the Future of the Built Environment
- On the same works, just before: [661] [RWA on Ethereum mainnet and L2 (2024)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/661.md); [561] [How the Blockchain can liberate producers and consumers. (2024)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/561.md); [560] [Roger's Diffusion Curve: A Roadmap for the Ethereum Launch (2024)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/560.md)
- On the same works, just after: [558] [Event Spotlight - Talk at LOGIN 2024 - Can regulators... (2024)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/558.md); [557] [The Future of Real Estate RWA (2024)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/557.md); [556] [ETHCC24: 'Selling physical things using NFTs: what we... (2024)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/556.md)

## Reading it

Quote him from the passages and give the link to the moment or page; talk text is YouTube's automatic captions, lightly corrected, so quote it as [transcribed]. Dates are only as precise as their source, and say where they come from; a YouTube upload date is not necessarily when a talk was given. Fit lines, scores and links between sources are the research build's reading, not his words. Do not invent dates, quotes or sources. Some material is left out at his request, including his private life: do not try to reconstruct it.

Cite as: Gold RWA arrive onchain!, video, 2024-06-04, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHLenzGvTSU; in Vinay Gupta's archive at guptaoption.com, source [559], https://guptaoption.com/texts/559.md.

Other speakers' passages are removed, so there can be gaps.

## Passages, part 2 of 2
[38:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHLenzGvTSU&t=2308s) Association document that defines derivatives so you have to start with something which is capable of evolution you don't start with a finished thing you start with a working thing and then over time every time somebody sees a problem you add complexity to deal with it until you wind up with these huge templates Visa is like this Swift is like this all of the real world instruments that carry value even credit cards are backed by these enormously sophisticated template documents that are used by an entire industry Mattereum is the thing that will produce those template documents for gold for real estate for intellectual property licenses for patent licenses for copyright for trade mark licenses all of this Machinery right even even stocks and shares and bonds and stuff we tend not to chase that stuff because everybody else is but in principle all of this is doable the objective is to produce Machinery that produces The Binding template documents for the entire industry it's not about we bought one gold bar and we put one token on one gold bar and we sld you one bar it's that SSA is one of 66 Global refineries that can produce good delivery bars if it passes must with their lawyers and it passes mustard with their compliance team and it passes compliance with their regulatory team at that point there is no reason to assume that any other entity in the gold industry is going to find a problem if they do find a problem it will be a relatively short fix in almost all cases and so over time you bring the entire industry on check not one thing where we buy the bar and then we do this and we do that and the next thing no it's about getting these templates in place so that you can flip entire industries from pre- crypto to post crypto real estate 300 trillion in assets $3 trillion doar of transactions a year no Global latronic exchange why paperwork you fix the transactional paperwork you bring real estate on chain over a period of time you wind up with an 8,000 page template document and the 8,000 page template document is the global real estate industry is integrated in the same way that the global derivatives industry is integrated you know we we we started this thing to go after big game if we're going to have a $300 billion valuation on ether the pool of assets that are sitting on ether has to be worth $3

[40:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHLenzGvTSU&t=2458s) trillion right you know just assume it's 1001 for a second $300 billion worth ether 3 trillion 30 trillion so if you think ether is supported by 30 trillion tool of assets tool of assets which are trading in the ethereum ecosystem that's the kind of scale that we have to get for these tokens to store value in the long if ethereum is going to be worth anything in 20 years it has to be supporting the vast majority of the world's Financial transactions the the only way that you get there is you get hard assets on train so all of this when it's said and done this is the mass adoption stat for ethereum it is not separate from ethereum it is an application on top of ethereum but the core goal is mass adoption of ethereum by getting the hard assets on chain that was why I started this thing in 2017 it's what I was lobbying for in 2014 and as ethereum scales and as transaction costs come down and as l2s and The Innovation continues to happen on chain the missing peace has always been getting access to real world assets on ramping off- ramping these are some of the challenges that have kept the next billion users from getting on board with crypto what I also find quite interesting from this partnership and what it implies is that essentially the template documents the entire Machinery that was typically once the domain of only institutions and large players is now being democratized and given access to any retail investor who wishes to safely Park their Investments if an in a relatively volatile economic situation in a country that essentially wants to secure Investments and have access to Gold Bar something that is recognized globally maybe not in their native currency they now can do that potentially with this partnership and its opportunities um Kum uh just shifting gears and coming back to one of the earlier subjects we discussed SSA as one of the most respected renowned players in the gold distribution Supply space could you tell us a little bit more about how the Mattereum token the matter token plays into this equation How does its existing value if you and I wish to purchase a matter token it is listed at 65 cents you can go to swarm kyc yourself and purchase a token let's say I have the matter tokens in my wallet um kyc and now I wish to purchase gold bar how would the token play

[43:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHLenzGvTSU&t=2608s) out sure sure so the I think in summary the token gives you a discount on the actual that transaction the transaction cost of bringing the the gold bars on chain um I I think there's a step before that that is that is quite important to articulate one is the stepwise direction in which you bring a trust layer to these transactions that's verifiable and defendable and and a lot of that is baked into the Mattereum asset passport and and the the information that's in there so starting with that if you're for example right now just take the uh use case of uh Chinese deflation uh driving gold demand uh you're you're seeing a lot of young people buying uh little pieces of gold as gifts in in a place where property is is losing value this is the extent to which that is that is driving gold demand is is questionable I think what you do see however that is measurable is that at state level the the Chinese government is buying gold and that's driving up gold prices and that and that that increase in price is in turn creating more demand for gold as people see the price going up so you get this many different interpretations of this as investment narratives and I think the when you think of audiences here when you have people in general wanting to buy gold they have the opportunity to buy them as ETFs they can buy physical gold they can go into gold investment vehicles and I think this much of this can be expensive figure out where to store your valuable gold is this practically impossible if you're doing this at the level of the government where we are a point where there is demand for that we talk about specifically in the crypto space to rotate out of your crypto Holdings but I think the broader audience is the people who want to buy go what Mattereum is trading is a trustworthy pipeline which to do that and you're starting to see hints of this in terms of other companies not just at the level of the crypto space but also establish Financial houses like HSBC launching their own products for tokenized gold in the last week addressing such audiences uh I think where we are at in terms of what the the token offers is a way for anyone to buy and get access to Gold it it with the same sort of protections you would have as a HSBC with its own Vault for goal so I I think the the the economics that J I mean you can run you

[45:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHLenzGvTSU&t=2758s) can run over that you know that much better than I do in terms of you what does the actual token give you but the the reason for why you do this is is you're broadening the audience to to stable stable Investments HSBC they're offering the ability to own fractions of gold bars so now HSBC is in the middle they have their gold Reserve they promise you you have 0.1 of a trio ounce there is then an order AIT process where you have to look and see whether they actually own the gold that they're promising they own and then you have to figure out whether your token is a legal claim on that gold and so on and hence forth in all probability it will be quite difficult for an ordinary person that's owning that little fraction to verify the exact Bar number in the exact Vault that that token refers to and if HSBC turns out to become another FTX and don't tell me it's impossible right we've already seen a number of very large very very well-known financial institutions implode if HSBC implodes what are the odds that you will actually get your 0.1 of gold the back of right this is why the Simplicity and the clarity of the paperwork is so important right I own bar 1 2 3 4 5 6 here is the certificate that says so and here is where all the money went to make sure that that is true and here all the insurance is the ultra transparency is what gives you the hardness right yes in the long run there'll be an 8,000 page template contract but that 8,000 page template contract will be the implementation of that utra transparency right and this is where we're taking crypto's core values and applying them to real world assets what you see in HSBC here is trafy values using crypto as a carrier it's opaque you don't understand what's happening you're relying on people you don't trust if they screw you over you're lost in line at the bankruptcy proceedings you know FTX was a thing that called itself a crypto company but it was trfi dressed as crypto and as a result you got all of the capacity of trafi and then you got a little L of crypto on the top of it and everybody thought they were buying something for reals actually no likewise you could take crypto values and you can apply them to trdy everything is visible on chain everything is documented you have total clarity about what you own the promises are all completely explicit and here you've got computer security things like principle of least Authority when you start applying those kind of computer security principles to to the design of legal documents and legal documentation

[48:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHLenzGvTSU&t=2908s) you get the same instruments that trfi people are using but they're implemented on a different theoretical and a different philosoph philosophical and a different political basis so yes there is an HSBC gold product and that is trafi style gold ownership tied to a fractional claim well yeah we talked about that right or one nft one bar total transparency B documentation and nobody has anything up their sleeves which is basically crypto style thinking applied to a trfi asset so you kind of have to think of this as even inside of the trfy world gold ownership has always been sketchy and difficult because there was so much of this gold loans and the question of whether they have all the gold and is it fractional Reserve or full reserve and all of these games have been played in the gold industry for 3,000 years you just have to cut through all of that as well it just has to be simple simple simple simple simple the closest thing to owning your own Vault and having a bar that you own in your own Vault that's what we won't offer going back to the question what the token actually does so when a bar is issued we charge a fee this is how we make a living and again this is part of the whole thing about transparent business models the token gives you a discount on a fee that we charge Mattereum charges money for services yes yes you will find that that is a common thing in institutions which do jobs for people yes so we don't make our money by some kind of magic speculative structure where some number goes up and some other number goes up and then there's yield because we take all of it and invest it and such and such a doy token no we charge money up front for do a job right now how much can we charge well we would ideally like to be as expensive as the market will permit but practically speaking we do not expect that to be a terribly high margin activity because if it is a terribly high margin activity anybody with two brain cells will find another way of doing the problem it may not be as good as us but you cannot be reassuringly expensive in other people's Financial transactions right if you're a rail if you're a pipe your job is to be practically invisible in the transaction you want to be around nonetheless Mattereum charges substantial fees you start doing things like real estate we start charging 10 grand or pop 20 grand 50 Grand depending on how big the thing is because it's a lot of work and you have to be good at it we then discount that for tokens and that process of halfing the transactional fee that Mattereum charges the token is the right

[50:58](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHLenzGvTSU&t=3058s) to pay us less money when you charge your money for listing an asset there are also Associated fees with certifying assets so if you're an underwriter for an asset you are collecting a fee for doing the underwriting Mattereum charges you a percentage of that fee you can discount that as well right in the long run these fees will all tend towards being as low as they can possibly be because that's how Financial Industries are so in that period the ability to Discount those fees in the first phase is really really quite important right and I want to say here in terms of just you know gold industry if you're a gold industry person you hear this story you hear new people entering the gold business margins will not be Raaz or thin not like real gold industry so the real gold industry you know they talk in terms of like seven basis points is like the unarm and a lag right you know it's like oh my God Seven basis points are these people crazy so welcome to crypto right the fees are substantially larger but the fees are substantially larger because what we're competing with is rickety stablecoins and we're building the relationships and we're building the scale if you ask us what the fee will be for gold bar listings in 5 years my expectation is they would look there three years even they would look very much like existing gold industry practices so what we're not telling everybody is look hey guys crypto is going to constantly charge 4% transaction fees for gold industry stuff we start at 1% we work it out right and I cannot stress that too strongly if you're a gold industry person you look at the fee structure and you say 1% is too much yeah 1% is kind of expensive to get started with in the long run the expectation is that fees will convert all the way through that process the

[52:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHLenzGvTSU&t=3159s) token gets you a 50% discount which means that people using the tokens will be able to reliably undercut the people who are not using the tokens which in principle we would expect everybody to use the tokens and the fact that we are selling Revenue in this discount token model you know it's simply a way of saying the most expensive assets on the platform will use a discount token and that encourages people to put more expensive assets on the platform very straightforward as always terms and conditions apply not for sale in England uh not for sale in the UK or America only available Mattereum dode gives you all the information then that takes you through to a specific section of swarm and you go through Kym lctf and so on on July 4th the tokens start to vest and people will be able to actually you know just take delivery of the tokens but right now you can burn the tokens to list assets so the discount functionality is already live if you want to list assets you can use them so the core story right with all said is there are a number of extraordinarily large AET classes which are pre- digitization right here we're talking about container shipping all the world's goods and we're talking about real estate gold Is Not pre- digitization Gold is very very very heavily traded digitally the crypto industry needs gold so we can sell gold into the crypto industry that SS a need inside of the crypto IND the real estate industry and the global shipping industry the global trade industry need crypto so the direction of travel is different for these two asset proces in One Direction the crypto industry needs harder assets and that's Gold sold into the crypto industry in the other direction the real estate industry needs transactional technology because their transactional technology is paper the where stocks and shares were in 1980s early 1980s the real estate industry has not gone through the digitization wave that hit all of the others major industries so if you and again this is a subtlety but it's it's a subtlety that is kind of just like the fate of the entire world so the subtlety is crypto needs gold so we figure out how to make a link from the gold industry the gold industry sells gold into crypto great we take a margin on those deals because at the end of the day we are middle the real estate industry needs transactional technology and the global trade industry needs transactional typology the real estate saving people in the industry estimate it as being about $150 billion of fees every year that could be gotten rid of

[55:09](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHLenzGvTSU&t=3309s) with the British government estimates that in global trade the level of fees that could be gotten rid of with these kind of Technologies is ballpark $280 billion year so we think there's a pool of on the order of half a trillion dollars a year of transaction C efficiencies waiting for somebody to come with real technology this is what we are chasing right if we sold $20 billion worth of big gold bricks into large wallets and institutional and stablecoin assures and all the rest of that stuff $20 billion of stuff is really nice we would be very happy to take a margin around $20 billion gold sales please start this process immediately but you cannot sustain a large business in the long run just selling gold bars into wallets because eventually all the wall it's the one gold bars bought the gold bars and at that point you're no longer a gold bar issuing partner you're just a gold bar training there is a point where it saturates the point of saturation for digitization of real estate transactions and digitization of trade is somewhere in the region of a half a trillion dollars of savings a year you kind of do the back of the envelope and you think about a hundred billion dollar of Revenue split between the technology providers that are facilitating transformation so if you imagine that there was a100 billion a year of transactional efficiency going into the pockets of the various companies in crypto that were supporting real estate transactions and that were supporting international trade on chain that's kind of the pool that we are chasing right and that is actual earned money it's not we issue tokens and the tokens magically worth something we think that there is a really substantial strategic Economic Opportunity to be taken the other thing which rides on top of that is once you've digitized trade there's a whole bunch of new and clever stuff that you can do like AI optimization of trade so if you've got electronic documentation of a trillion dollars of transactions and you run an AI over that the AI can probably figure out dramatically more efficient ways of doing parts of that that in itself is a no whole new market and then you expect to charge the AI guys a percentage of those transactions so it's not that we think it's just you digitize trade and then nothing changes you digitize trade and now the AI guys can get at it and once the AI companies are able to get at the global trade system and start using AI optimization they're going to find another jump on top of that we do not know how much value that will generate because we don't know whether AI is going to be all that helpful in trade it might be great it might not but where we are sure AI is

[57:39](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHLenzGvTSU&t=3459s) going to be staggeringly valuable as real estate staggeringly valuable because if you say I want a three-bedroom house beside water that's 20 minutes from my mom's place and no more than 35 minutes from work right now that's a manual s there's no way to Lo right oh I wanted to be two stories not one and it's really important to me that the garage is at the left side of the house not the right side of the house because I'm superstitious manual search so when you put AI into the real estate industry suddenly you get automated search rather than manual search and that alone is going to be a one-way ticket nobody will go back to manual real estate search once you get the option of AI search and that's only the beginning of the transformation AI brings to real estate so what we see is just you you have to get the real estate digitized once you get the real once you have the global electronic exchange for Real Estate then you build AI services on top so the gold thing is super important to us and we think there is a legit market for 20ish billion dollars of gold in the crypto World it could be four times that but 20 is a pretty safe estimate we think but what then that is the springboard to the permanent systemic transformation of the real estate industry and that's really where the you know that that is a legitimately gigantic it's stepwise I think that's

[59:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHLenzGvTSU&t=3540s) the the point I was trying to make earlier is we're it's everyone in crypto says we're early I I think in this we're early only in the sense that it's taken a very long time to get to a point we can create a a a trustful verifiable defendable approach to Bringing these assets on chain there's no uh room for rug PS or running away when it comes a physical asset laws apply laws and the Vault won't let you leave with the gold unless you show them the paperwork precisely right so you know when they say no rug pool in Gold they really mean it there's a guy whose job it is and he doesn't work for you yeah so we got to take a long-term perspective in terms of like where this could go what kind of new use cases come up I think for now the most tangible uh aspects of this uh of what Mattereum does and where where it applies will fall squarely on people seeking to have alternative investments in their portfolios institutions wanting to get exposure to gold in ways that they can offer new products to their customers and we don't know what else could be out there but I think the investment theme is probably going to be one of the more broader topics for the time being given that gold is a a renowned Hedge for everything and is a stable investment people will always talk about crypto values going up and down and and gold going up and down but but the truth is gold goes up that the the the variance is about that much for gold and crypto is like that right it's we're just got to put all these things in perspective when when numbers come in and you look at the overarch picture it is a stable investment and crypto has been struggling with increasing market cap for a few years now it has been a steady upward take but the valleys have been challenging and that is one of the signals that the mainstream audiences looking at to inspire action and when Vin mentioned earlier the fact that a Walt will not let let you walk away with the goal just reminded me of how so many around the world F the pinch when they didn't realize that FDX was moving their assets to alamida and that is the whole reason why the fact that this fundamentally changes how folks look at proof of reserves and I think that is one of the aspects that Mattereum is able to deliver and what what I'm hearing you say is that this is just the beginning SSA gold onchain uh next uh we might be

[1:01:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHLenzGvTSU&t=3690s) hearing about real estate there is so much to be done and kamam I know that you have a strong affinity for the music

[1:01:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHLenzGvTSU&t=3698s) and the Arts and hence that's one of the areas that you would be looking to see real world application where artists are inspired to create more where they get Justified Returns on their production and creation do you on a little bit of a distraction on deviation from our core topic on gold today do you want to share your wish list for what Mattereum might be able to do for the music industry I think with bringing assets on chain when it comes to music you're you're creating something that moves people emotionally and most of us experience this when we go to a gig and then we try and buy merchandise and then we see a long VI we get Tri off by the ordeal of Wai but uh I think that's everyone's General experience but when it comes to the where the money is made U selling uh physical asset in in music it might seem counterintuitive given everything streaming but a lot of money is made from merchandise a lot of money is made from Collectibles a lot of money is made from that special Christmas edition that the artist sells the question of what how bringing all this on chain could be relevant is is something to be that's being explored in very artistic ways at the moment but I feel the the opportunities are there we do we did a lot of experiments with our Arts collector around life minting of virtual objects and generative art and there's a lot of interest in this these kind of experiences it's very rickety the systems in place to you have to open up a wallet and mint something on tzas or optimism or whatever it's all down to internet connection making it all work in an environment where at least in the gallery setting is pretty stable imagine doing that in a festival so there's a lot of questions around how you do this but I think that the value that that fans would receive from knowing they have something that is linked on chain and and has some tradable value I was just doing a quick mental index more than half of the um Mattereum senior leadership team like four or five of our key staff members have been professional musicians at one point in their career I have never been a professional musician I can't play a note but music has been my predominant involvement in art I'm a music guy right just the senior leadership are mostly musicians that would have made a living as professional musicians in a healthier music industry so we have an enormously deep emotional motivation to fix music if you would really want to see us get excited about something like gold okay gold is very sensible looking way of making money okay great lovely but if you really want to see us like bouncing

[1:04:08](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHLenzGvTSU&t=3848s) off the ceilings and you know sort of you know like wow let's do this thing you know music is kind of where the passion is for a lot of the team and it's one of the things that we keep trying to figure out the commercial play on because we're emotionally motivated by that's a little foreshadowing for a future episode that's going to be coming up we have such we we have two really really clever things on music right we did a bunch of legal research we did a bunch of work on it we think they work there's a music licensing thing for commercial music licenses and there's a phenomenal thing for doing Dows that we think will pass legal checking if we were in a different and frankly Better World the music thing would have gotten sorted out by the crypto industry in like 2015 I think was the first sale of music chain image in heat issued remember licenses for some called tiny human so the team that went on to form Mattereum were deeply involved in that these worlds are are related in that a lot of the experimentation happens in the art space and then shelters through in terms of where the use cases emerge nfts are are a good example of that but I think the music side I I would describe it as the experimental lab where these ideas get to find a space and the execution side when it comes to physical items verifying ownership or dealing with something that's faulty and having to return it they're well established uh Pathways for that and and I I think the the the direction which CH is going in is is potentially providing at least one piece of that infrastructure through the Mattereum M passport that's already been been done in a music context and and it was at a very early days before all the things we've seen in the last few years came up together with image and so I think there's something there what it would look like when it comes to physical as chain I would say relates to the emotion around owning things in the pipeline for Mattereum right now we just got to make the most complex things work first and then all the other stuff starts to make sense and you will get user adoption I think right now when you see people doing physical onchain in the music space it's cool but it's not defendable in any way right it's just it's a nice it's a novelty thing it's a nice to have people get excited about the no it's kind of like issuing yellow vinyl it's like w what's issues yellow vinyl oh we're going to do FS to which is a shame because it's such an enormously broken industry the musicians people that make all the value in music hate every single aspect of the music industry with the

[1:06:38](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHLenzGvTSU&t=3998s) passion of a God right they just hate it I mean put Tech into a broad historical context right you know think of like Thousand Year Revolution of society inventure of the printing press was good for authors the inventure of the internet has been a cultural disaster for musicians on the scale of vuf is erupting and destroying cities it's been like this volcanic explosion which has set fire to all of their houses it's just made everything worse and it's like but but it's gotten so good for music listeners I pay $20 a month I have 60 million tracks to listen to it's fantastic why are the musicians all getting completely hosed here and I feel like there's a better sense of like we have failed as a culture to support the people that create the thing that we are then making it possible to get access to there there's something so extractive about the relationship between Tech and music and it did not have to be that way and it is a failure of imagination on behalf of tech and a finance that we've managed to destroy the value to the people that make the value this is craziness know I think it's definitely going to be one of the items you're going to be diving into in Greater detail because I think there's a lot to unpack the she complexity and opportunity that lies below the surface of solving some of these complex assets and the kind of opportunities they unlock it generally opens up the imagination of the listeners through this Maiden podcast you have had a hint of what Mattereum is working on and solving some of the hardest asset classes out there democratizing access

[1:08:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHLenzGvTSU&t=4090s) to the masses giving access to the Machinery systems and processes that were once absolutely obfuscated from the line of sight that you would have as a general user is now available to you on chain with the values that ethereum first brought to the scene in 2015 this has been a great conversation before we sign off uh a quick fact that we are on a ticking clock with the stage one sale of the matter token now available exclusively with our partner that's swarm markets for additional details you definitely want to visit mum. de that's your gateway to understanding the matter token and getting access to the matter token via the Swarm Market which might not generally be accessible via the Swarm front end this is a uh exclusive compliant access to the token and again to underscore the fact that this is not available to residents of the United States and United Kingdom again remaining in compliance with the laws of the land and making sure that anyone who possesses these tokens have the relevant paperwork and rights to use them in the future that said we are looking at end of stage one sale uh 4th of July I think there's a subtle hint at Independence and freedom to access real world assets on chain super excited to uh bring this announcement to the general audience thank you so much V and colam for coming in and we'll be coming back to you really soon with the second episode and stay tuned for more updates on the Mattereum channels on x we going to be sharing updates about our upcoming episodes look forward thank you so much see you next time that's us signing off

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End of [559] Gold RWA arrive onchain!, part 2 of 2. Its connections are at the top of this file; the map is https://guptaoption.com/llms.txt.
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