# Green Foundation Ireland - The Future of Europe (part 2 of 2)

> One source from the archive of Vinay Gupta's work at guptaoption.com, as plain text for AI agents: [394], part 2 of 2. Vinay Gupta, exponential humanitarian. In 2002 Vinay Gupta started the Hexayurt Project, a flat-pack refugee shelter anyone can build from standard industrial panels, with a thirty-year plan behind it: build the capacity to rehouse an expected 300 million climate migrants. Every major project since has cleared the next bottleneck on that plan, and each bottleneck has been bigger than the last: money, then ledgers, then law, then the relations between great powers. Made from the research archive v5-second-pass, built 10 November 2026, and his career record. The map of the whole archive is https://guptaoption.com/llms.txt, and any source [id] is at https://guptaoption.com/texts/<id>.md. This file's connections are below, then his passages.

## Where this source sits

- Source: video, 2012-11-17 (YouTube upload date), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgiHvtQOISs. Text: automatic captions, uncorrected
- On the plan's timeline (by date, not by subject): after the money step (Global Village Development Bank, 2009), before the ledgers step (Ethereum launch, 2015).
- How it fits the plan (the research build's reading): Context recording.
- Career works it belongs to:
  - The New Economy: out of money, out of time, but not out of ideas (2010): One-page paper: the richest fifth are eating the planet, so the next economy has to be at peace with other... (suggested by machine)
  - The Big Deal (2011): Four-essay blog series arguing that government has hit hard limits, so civil society, working with... (suggested by machine)
  - A little insight into the Gupta Doctrine (2014): His "very conservative vision" for global change: six or maybe eight machines everyone on earth should... (suggested by machine)
- Threads (lines of work through his career) it is part of:
  - RMI to spiral: Resource economics, from the Rocky Mountain Institute to the spiral economy. (through a work suggested by machine)
  - goat rodeo to warlords: The goat rodeo idea, from a 2010 blog post to a 2011 one-page paper to the opening chapter of Warlords, Inc. (2015). (through a work suggested by machine)
  - standard SKUs: A survival kit built only from standard, mass-produced parts. (through a work suggested by machine)
- Topics: Open government & anti-corruption (71%)
- Distinctive terms here, against the whole archive: European Parliament (6 here; 3 sources in all, earliest dated 2012); Future of Europe (3 here; 2 sources in all, earliest dated 2012); citizens (12 here; 63 sources in all, earliest dated 2006, 3 undated); European integration (2 here; 3 sources in all, earliest dated 2012); Ireland (5 here; 36 sources in all, earliest dated 2006); Scotland (3 here; 29 sources in all, earliest dated 2010); political legitimacy (1 here; 6 sources in all, earliest dated 2012); human rights (2 here; 38 sources in all, earliest dated 2006); global governance (1 here; 18 sources in all, earliest dated 2009); jobs (2 here; 85 sources in all, earliest dated 2003, 4 undated)
- The earliest dated source in this archive for (undated sources may be earlier): political legitimacy; European Parliament
- Importance: core-text score 0.16 (1.00 is the top), number 409 of the 729 sources it scored, the research build's measure of substance, importance and innovation
- Related sources:
  - [572] [How To Address Climate Change: Diplomacy, Politics,... (2022)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/572.md): close in content (cosine 0.92)
  - [683] [CommunityZ Chest - Vinay Gupta, Founder of Mattereum, In... (2020)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/683.md): close in content (cosine 0.92)
- On the same works, just before: [725] [Vinay Gupta l Plausible utopias | Meaning 2012 (2012)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/725.md); [396] [Transparency International launch event, Dublin (2012)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/396.md); [148] [Mother of Hydrogen (2012)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/148.md)
- On the same works, just after: [72] [A Feather for Lifting Anvils – EdgeRyders 2.0 plans to... (2012)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/72.md); [169] [OHM2013 Program (2013)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/169.md); [686] [VINAY GUPTA, Future of Europe Seminar, Nov 2012 (2013)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/686.md)

## Reading it

Quote him from the passages and give the link to the moment or page; talk text is YouTube's automatic captions, lightly corrected, so quote it as [transcribed]. Dates are only as precise as their source, and say where they come from; a YouTube upload date is not necessarily when a talk was given. Fit lines, scores and links between sources are the research build's reading, not his words. Do not invent dates, quotes or sources. Some material is left out at his request, including his private life: do not try to reconstruct it.

Cite as: Green Foundation Ireland - The Future of Europe, video, 2012-11-17, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgiHvtQOISs; in Vinay Gupta's archive at guptaoption.com, source [394], https://guptaoption.com/texts/394.md.

Other speakers' passages are removed, so there can be gaps.

## Passages, part 2 of 2
[1:07:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgiHvtQOISs&t=4050s) sort of federal European superstate and then have it turned into be another 500 million person on the Republic I think should be a threat right we act as if Federalism is the hous no Federalism is the question once you assemble a political block that Mar it can develop theologies on scale which are unimaginable outside of what that SS right if you run AR as badly as you run America you can't imagine the situation much as you think and it's nothing compared to what possible the degree to which the arms industry American foreign policy for example is something that in a smaller country would be highly visible NA stand but in America it passes because the arms industry is C Washington DC so the th majority of people in government are surrounded socially by arms they're surrounded by the folks who work for it's their friends it's their relatives so you have a sort defense industrial complex unit on the east coast and the central government and the rest of the country RNs its hands but it's not from the enormous geographical size of problem enable certain of corruption to be very just never today so how we avoid a catastrophic blood in our B governments once to achieve this kind of federal solution I think needs to be the uh question it's not just a question of federalism it's who's federalism on what basis and how is the corruption in control because we all know Europe is capable of astonishing levels of corruption right you only need to look at the history of the Catholic church when political power to understand the true nature of the problem right books fre books all of this kind of stuff surface in an institution was theoretically the source of political accountability and the source of political Authority s legitimacy for Thousand Years to see the European Union St into the shoes the Catholic Church as the center of political as the center of political legitimacy in Europe and then immediately return is completely

[1:10:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgiHvtQOISs&t=4200s) right given real power locking over just how much Dage to the federal level do it's constructed foundation and I don't think anybody in this room defend Curr structure as something that has like the necessary levels of representation transparency and pability necessary to Triple Interruption which become F life and it's incredibly important that we really take this on notes because it's all very well pushing for in Europe but if it's in Europe that imediately falls down the plat corruption and I say the word corruption very very specific if you look at what's actually resulted in the bankrupt that in Sp it goes directly into a collusion between the financial interests on state to make the people for private de pleas we didn't from goodby and it was a crisis and to grow that Europe lar way protecting fed interests the European consensus is the private interests going wind up being bailed out for as long as is necessary to preserve the states structure AS stand and if Europe integration is being driven by desire to protect the state code at the expense of the welfare of people it's only going to get worse right the time for straightening out Europe is now because by the time that this integration was done if it wasn't straightened now it's not going to be straightened in America they almost certainly can't themselves out the something approxim it's very very hard to see how a single America can with split that go this and with the corruption on the so if that's how bad it is in States Point tear down something straight let us not mateing apprpriate foundation for European un because it can get b right what we know from the 20th centur is just and finally I want to frame this continents much as we think that we are the poor we are the rich right there are

[1:12:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgiHvtQOISs&t=4350s) 7 billion people in this world the top 10% let's say 700 million is largely composed of all the middle classes in America in Europe and the upper classes Ines of India and China that's pretty much what mil we are so if we're going to talk about Justice on climate and poverty and everything else we are the ones that will pay right we're going to have to open our BS and take a third or a half of the money out and put it in the bucket Mark we got rich under our backs and they everybody has a fantasy this is particularly prevalent in beings and especially in the left particular groups are talk everybody has a fanty that when Justice is done he will be richual it is not true when Justice is done we will be the rich will be much poer we will be a bit coer and if you think about paying fair trade prices not just for your coffee or TV but for your laptops and your televisions and your cars you can begin to see what that looks like right a fair trade laptop easily cost you four or 5,000 if it wasn't being produced by Chinese workers who have no right to unionize because their country is theoretically by the using raw materials which are extracted at some point in Africa by the start in this working right we have a seamless integration between capitalism communism and feudalism in this world it's the trade equilibrium which makes us rich imperialism SPS all politics and if we break the back of that in the continent of start we're going to have to start working for 20 to 30% of the population by not right we going to farm because we're not going to import manufacturing will come back because if it cost to a fair trade price fire from China you might just Germany but it's not until we start thinking social thinking global scale about social justice that it's possible to imagine future in which there are no deep was at the heart of our society that first of all obscure the damage we've done to other people and then eventually the damage other people do to us transparency will show that we are still ofm and the price that we're P

[1:15:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgiHvtQOISs&t=4500s) Ines is simply I ask people to keep questions stats I a question thetics are very good no it's just a question important mainly all the speakers specifically for the last and what is the role that the social media have played and and we talking about the 21st century globalization and the challenges and what the role that social media can play positive and negative yesterday I had opportunity to meet human rights activist from tesia name Lina and just I had opportunity to meet human activist fromia was there at the time the and even the RO of was a bloger and she was actually witnessing all these atrocities in tunia and I'm wondering we and I think that is playing a very important seems to me that sometimes this is not as positive as as we want I know I'm the B I know that in Catal other places in Spain people are really supposed to start to to take the streets and they think that it's the Revolution have question the question is for social media you think that the Revolution start taking the streets or it's more

[1:17:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgiHvtQOISs&t=4650s) about organizing reevolution sorry sure I mean see the social media thing is it just depends who's using it's it's an under power so because kind of H people tend to use it first people tend to use social media first we social media right the early has a certaines we've confused social media you toter I think right now we standing to favor Progressive values because the user Progressive but true and given how government is managing social media D thata occasion you know but press is press is press we have to defend it whether we like being said or not and um all are going to import in in this very difficult time of transition um and and the traditional broadcasting India are in a particularly difficult space because they're being undermined by this developing social media know and their business cases being undermined by the internet and that's causing a very difficult space in the media and that's particular difficult if you looking for change in the wayer world is because some of the change that we seek it's slow change it doesn't it doesn't happen overnight to switch to a clean economy it's going to take time um the some of the work that you have to do at an international level if you can get agreements if we can get of Europe Federal structure right and a global cooperation it doesn't make the headlines headlines are made by it happens fast news by definition does not quite slow and and um I think there's the real issue in terms of how we avoid it tripping into a really

[1:20:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgiHvtQOISs&t=4800s) dangerous and damaging change is in the political messaging and Communications other and that is an issue for all media social other others I think one of the issues in it is that people um have confidence in the government that exists and one of cures in that is the digital rights that we put in place for this new techn the rules around your data as to how private it is the rules around ethes ethics even on being the social networks and really important to avoid it becoming com as free and as open as possible is have some of those rules are set increasing the set of European court of justice not by the fisal system and i' have to say I think that's probably the good thing I think the court of justice is probably a better understanding at the hous of to apply andal system to I I think it's really important I think that the rules are important and need to be very clear I think it's important to develop Twitter and social media because you do reach a a new generation hopefully um but certainly new new people who may not um come into contact with with us and political messaging and and so on as think we have to be very careful that we don't take that that Leap Forward um and and leave a lot of people behind though I mean in in our party for example um obviously because costs have incasing um we've been looking at at using electronic mailings instead of sending things through the post but the truth is that that almost half of our members still are not of me so we have to to take this slowly we have to be using every possible and um in relation to the point that was made about who using it I know and I've seen maybe some of you have the last few days in in Gaza the isra defense for have been very active on Twitter whil calling people of question my name is CHR M I'm convener for transition initiative well and I've been working with the community Forum which is structur city

[1:22:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgiHvtQOISs&t=4950s) council to connect everybody together there's a crisis in Act of citizenship at the moment and you're talking about inable governance get everybody commitment to make change to people of the key are you deal with and faes the question is how can we actually help um feel that what they say matters because Left Right Center particular this week [Music] andet one of the issues we're going to have to do is we're going to have to as I say bring power to the European level and international level on that power going to Europe is increasingly to give it the ability to work as an international negotiations and I think that needs to be complemented in the type of federal structure that V is talking about that we need with a reduction a movement of power back down particularly to a very local level I think one of the real unfortunate developments in the last two years uh onto this government is that they've got the local government form wrong I think in just compl clearing away the bottom tier of local democracy they're missing an opportunity I think we should actually putting a new tier in there at District level and I think that and that doesn't have to cost a huge amount of money it can be a vol type system but I think it it should be very strongly participative democracy so when you planning our local Health our local policing our local um development issues of a variety of different sorts you can bring people in to talk about it in a room like this um as a as a local Democratic engagement and I think that's been the biggest one of the biggest biggest disfunctions to me in the lack ofal form the last years has been at Miss opportunity local government I think on on European Union level the um there have been attempts to allow citizens to have a real say to make a

[1:25:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgiHvtQOISs&t=5100s) difference and there's the citizens initiative now which is a million signatures various rules government May too strict but um basically it can lead to new legislation if if it all works well um there are petitions committees not only in the European Parliament but other parliaments which do allow people to to actually change legislation but those things are uh they very long drawn up they take a long time they're not entirely satisfactory even if they do what think in some ways and as well as the kind of participatory democracy that can be um introduced at a local level and this is one of my parties policies as well we've been looking at the the way simple to you don't just bring people along to um to give their views uh those people actually have a vote on how a section of a budget is spent in their local communi so it's not just paying lips this it's giving people real power and uh so we have to look at those types of issues but we've tried to to open up um in terms of the way the party operates as well we are advertising now for people who might be interested in becoming candidates for the next parliamentary elections whether or not the members of the party to to come and talk to us to you know people who may never have been involved in in politics but but who want to have a say so there there there are a lot of things that we can be promoting um but unfortunately despite uh many changes and new technology and so on we we tend to work in the same old ways that do exclude people that whether it's you know in planning process or whether it's the you know the votes on the the EU budget people do feel excluded and of course that's why the numbers of people voting has been dropping time after time and we have to try and can reverse

[1:27:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgiHvtQOISs&t=5250s) [Music] and question relates to need to as I remobilize the economy [Music] places Hollywood how you feel that um um how do you think you can balance obviously the inability to reverse globalization but then you need to I have a procedural question actually it's not it's okay it's a question to the organizers of just meeting will there be on the internet a summary of what the main speakers have said accessibly within a few days because if we have that we can continue this meeting in virtual mode but it's still warm in our memory yeah and and and the thing is that the other thing is that um um if you get presentation like that on the Internet it's perfectly possible also to include the and discussion which follows because you must provide uh the opportunity for the people who ask the questions to do an email to an editor and he will and pass it on to the speakers and get them to and put their comment on record and the whole thing can go up and that can be done it has been done for um and and and for Te in the s consortion Society only not with a a rapid time scale but the internet allows us to do this within a week prop it's going right to the interet right now so people can watch us watching is good you have to have the script have the keep walk

[1:30:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgiHvtQOISs&t=5400s) [Music] last speak primarily and ask question subsidiarity suity question Democratic legitimacy for those of us who believe in Europe is somewhat Federal but in a good way is another problem we overcome with the fact that you know despite that class of people young people consider themselves European citizens who I would say tend to be AAL certain socionomic class themselves and but there is actually on ground level leads aside quite a lot of resistance to this idea I mean in the UK there is a lot of actual Euros skepticism just the people and and across Europe we've seen a lot of federalizing initi rejected by referendum so if you want to build up not a very very big job to do first getting the whole idea and accepted in more way thank you sure um so the the class is very what I see is you know Germany France Italy Spain people those four countries got more less fluid excepts of Europe among M class and it's the case with who are more exposed to it's it's not the trade policy it's [Music] not question of democra legitimacy is Super Sub the work that I do my background is engineering is soal infrastructure Cent governments so the idea is you take cons infrastructure like power grid or an airport or and the government body is scaled to be exactly size ofuure discuss with many sers and that's really that's years think build but I think Hightech govern based sh Bas

[1:32:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgiHvtQOISs&t=5550s) onru of services support I think is and this will US understand the warru the assumption is because the and it's those kind of issues the beginnings of this kind of infastructure stuff I think long run 30 I don't think that it isn't that there's an inability to a treat from globalization I just don't think it would be a good thing I think if that happened it could be one of those circumstances where you would have resource Wars or another trade War occurring globalization has come and gone I mean probably from this Hall was the back Parliament D was a very globalized City with people coming missionary and elsewhere all of the traes coming here that book I mention rights of M was only two months after was published in New York and then we retreated from it in this city um in 1912 no one thought that the globalization that exist then is going to retreat into two World War so it could happen and if the de my argument is it would be it would be firstly dangerous in that sense but secondly not just because for those six other billion people to be able to raise some standard of living we have I don't think that will work in a in a continental economic approach for Europe say we're just going to look after each other Europe can't do it because we don't let the natural resources do it America might but I just don't think it would work the question then the real question is how do we provide employment to our people in a globalized economy and I think there are two you ask this that that might give some hope um firstly the global economy tends to expand or contri on certain major Investments you know one of the reasons for the success of 20th century was the fossil fuel the building of all those motorways to service the cars drove the economy the building of all

[1:35:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgiHvtQOISs&t=5700s) the fiber du and of Internet infrastructure has driven the world economy for the last 30 years what will come next As Natural Resources become expensive is resource efficiency that's the big Capital project to come the attractive thing about in employment terms is that in a trail between Capital labor and use natural resources the productivity increase is going to be concentrated in resource use not necessarily in labor cost so we're going to move for work with all the emphasis of getting the wages down getting get the labor out of it that will not be the key Drive in the next 30 Years it will be getting the use of resources it will be dematerializing service and that may allows the prospect to maintain employment levels while reducing the use use of materials is one possibility and I think um efficiency also does require certain extent of globalization we're not AR going to be we're not going to be making iPhones we're not going to be we don't have to rare materials to make them on our own ourselves you have to have international trade to deliver some of the technology we need to dematerialize our quality of life and and so a reasons why I don't see rever globalization I don't it be fair I think it could be chaotic I don't think it yes I think that um one of the things that we have to do in order to to build a better you but also to to look at the international context is to to show people that it's in all about press we do that that it's not about um looking at um St resources or um you know whatever is the issue it's we're not doing it for somebody else we're doing for ourselves for every one of us um in Wes we're not short of water but a lot a lot of the world is short of water we have to to be able to um see the resources in a global context and not just in terms of of what how they can be exploited and what we what profits we can make from them but how we can acheve equality and um sustain um a basic standard of life for

[1:37:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgiHvtQOISs&t=5850s) all people in the world and that's that's in everyone's interests and I think that that's um how we need to try and and and get people to think about the European Union as well um maybe I'm just coming from this UK perspective again but it's all about you know how much the commission wants from us what they taking from us what they're making us do next what laws they going to bring up next and you know how stupid is this whole system well that's not what it's about they're not looking at at what part we play in Europe and how each of us benefits from from being part of this this European Union as as um critical as I am of it I think that the the idea of us working together in Union is one we have to preserve and the greatest challenge for us is to make Europe ours people have to feel that it belongs to us each and every one of us not to face as bureaucrats not to to um governments in different parts of Europe whether it's the big member states or the smaller member states or the Euro Zone if you to us and that's what we have to retrieve thank you to thank all our and the question people have other questions that's at the end I thank our three speakers and so we're going move on to the uh second part of this first session uh with our two remaining speakers uh course Professor Elizabeth m u my one time boss at GRE University and the wonderful Mentor um May embarrass Elizabeth but the reason why I do academic work by day and politics by night is in part of her inspiration in terms of her role as not just an eminent academic looking at issues of European institutionalization and governance but also as a significant I think player this may embarrass behind the women's Coalition in Northern Ireland probably the first um really Progressive breakthrough in Northern Ireland and in particular for those of us who are members of the green part of ir it's in the way of the women's Coalition that many of us have made advances in in irland so wonderful to be able to invite thank

[1:40:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgiHvtQOISs&t=6000s) [Applause] you thank you very much inde for inviting me to be at this conference CER kind words and please don't don't be alarmed by my she of paper it's just that my reading s is a bit doy in a PO light and I didn't know I was going to be able be for look like and so I have large PR but it's not that long Henry um the program notes give three questions um for this discussion um in this in this session and um I think they're even more perent since the events of Wednesday across Europe than we were when the organizers them and I'll just move straight to the very first question which is does The Challenge to State sovereignty posed by globalization make European integration more compelling now I think from the beginning of the EU or the e as it then was um there was a widespread sense amongst the political leaders including in the United Kingdom and the interested public and that pooling empowers as they called it Ena states to act more effectively in achieving and maintaining good society that is one of um just like the United AR look for um one of security Justice and solidarity and so on and even then um most of all most nationalist movements in the member states though not all nationalist movements um they also recognized that the modern world was necessarily interdependent and in the late 1970s for example the Scottish national party um developed a policy of IND in Europe and that was um replicated in other nationalist parties um now as we've heard today um the idea that um sovereignty was more effective when pooled has very much disappeared from the mainstream of British politics um but these louder British voices are also to be heard in other countries that I think here particularly of the Czech Republic but if the interested citizen in the United Kingdom or anywhere else were to look to political leaders and

[1:42:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgiHvtQOISs&t=6150s) experts for guidance about whether today's crisis does make integration more compelling then I think K would get a loss because there's little consensus and there's a great deal of uncertainty and I could just recommend to you a paper produced by Linda also bar Linda bar of The Institute of international Affairs here in Dublin um there's a very good summary of all the different um understandings of what needs to be done and broadly speaking these analyses I display either disagreement about the proper measures either taken or to be taken that is incrementally within existing treaties or through constitutional reform or they do show a degree of certainty about what needs to be done closer economic and political union but also a sense that doing that will be impossible and then initial confusion lies in the question of what the crisis is about is it the needs to save the Euro zone or is it to save the EU now for a while the two of those things seem to overlap completely and that's hardly surprising given the interdependence of EU economies saing greas would save the Europe and that would save the union including the non Euro members thus at all costs GRE was to be kep in the EUR Zone but things have changed from the summer it has begun to be sort of voiced in Germany that a Greek exit and one location multiple departures from the Euro Zone would not be as daunting as had once seemed now I leave aside for this afternoon's discussion The Economic Consequences of multiple exits um but this Prospect is reate significant political questions that we used to call variable variable geometry or multi speed Europe and might there be an EU Poli with a federal core and with a simple fiscal policy moving in the direction of political union surrounded by a group of Nono States who may or may not got into the Euro and there is some disagreement um in the explanations about whether countries will be allowed

[1:45:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgiHvtQOISs&t=6300s) to opt in um to to to the to the euro and then there's the question as you heard the UK with so many op outs that it makes almost no sense to describe it as a member or out alog together not just because of a possible referendum along with the Scottish one but um pushed out as this demand for op outs become increasingly intolerable um to the other member states now the idea of the United States of Europe is on the agenda of whal grouping right AC cross the Spectrum in Germany this does not stem from idealism along the lines that we've been discussing this morning but reflects a view the political union is necessary and inevitable and in other countries politicians including some EU office holders also think that there is a compelling need to change the Treaty of lisb Lisbon in a federal Direction but there are other politicians and not just in and citizens in other countries and citizens as opposed to eles in Germany here and I quote from um one I read I oil from the goal of political union and I must say I was rather cheered by what V's comments there that maybe it's just the older voters um who recoil from the go Alan J from Ireland expert analyst now but also former politician he criticizes the whole processes of dealing with the crisis muddling through country by country approach and point to failure to tackle the problem that in a Multistate monetary Union a monetary and fiscal problem in one country is a problem for the whole conversely there's another analyst who's argu that one of the positive aspects of the Euro crisis is that it has provoked Europe to engage in a profound debate on the form and degree of federalism it needs and the idea that a degree of Federalism is required lies in the need for a monetary Union to have clear anation of rules and compet competencies not just on monary policy but also on fiscal policy or

[1:47:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgiHvtQOISs&t=6450s) spending side but the idea that the commission could have a role in monitoring macroeconomic and fiscal policy and that there could be sanctions um on the cute States from the court of justice is unacceptable in the larger member states and a continuing attachment to National budgetary sovereignty trumps a move to more fiscal federalism in any case um fully fiscal full fiscal federalism would be said sometimes said be a decisive step to political union from which as we've already noted many politicians and Elites in the AG of 30 so what is actually happening is has been described as a system of government under which de countries have to accept fiscal policy restrictions and structural reforms imposed by Predator countries while the latter remain free to conduct their own policy with no meaning for interference and Steven wall who was once a British Diplomat and now he's also turned analyst as he's recently pointed out it's hard to detect either the political leadership in Europe or the popular support that will trans form the governments of the Euro Zone and with it the longterm political and economic prospects of Europe as a whole and um this is this topic of perhaps fiscal federalism or political federalism even is the subject of one of those citizens initiatives um that Joe um told you about earlier and which I mention this only foundation's website was a very good on European um citizens initiative so I do recommend that so the next question then do citizens feel connected to the EU in a practicable practical and meaningful way and I think um for most of us we all became accustomed to enjoy the fruits of integration coming be the Four Freedoms of the Treaty of Rome freedom of movement Goods Capital Services and people as indicated and the fundamental vales of the European Union respect for dignity and freedom democracy equality R

[1:50:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgiHvtQOISs&t=6600s) of law human rights and so on um values which flourished in all the European member states and were reclaimed the newer us and which as we heard today animated in United Irish and I just add point about Dani he was on the of room I think to his death but and died before he got there but in Paris in 1847 he was failed by a very large Crow ofers who wish to pay tribute to the man who they thought of as the most successful champion of Liberty and democracy in Europe and it was the ambition in the 1960s that citizens of modern Europe would recognize their commonality and attribute those situations to their common membership of and um I agree with people who indicated criticisms I think that that ideal was only partially realized to class factors and other things which came into play which didn't make it entirely person experience but really now the down string of economic pend has been brought has brought about what um some has described as an overwhelming reversal back to the National interest as our refence functional economies are riddled of disease and ready to poison the life blood of healthy economies and this language links economic performance to a general moral character of entire political communities and that is part of the stuff of the nor South flat and a weaken sense of connection with the EU is also to be found in among citizens in Predator States I gather that in Germany many people Curr think that they would be better off without the German for minister in September this year to say it would what was said in the previous session what J said and I mentioned earlier do not seem to feeling that we're all part of the same

[1:52:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgiHvtQOISs&t=6750s) system of solidarity and they're not strong enough assumingly and to make Europe the EU and further integration look like a solution rather than part of the problem and I I if I'm

---
End of [394] Green Foundation Ireland - The Future of Europe, part 2 of 2. Its connections are at the top of this file; the map is https://guptaoption.com/llms.txt.
Read next: next on the same works, [72](https://guptaoption.com/texts/72.md) A Feather for Lifting Anvils – EdgeRyders 2.0 plans to... (2012); the most closely related, [572](https://guptaoption.com/texts/572.md) How To Address Climate Change: Diplomacy, Politics,... (2022); his whole career in one file, https://guptaoption.com/story.md.