# Green Foundation Ireland - The Future of Europe (4) (part 1 of 3)

> One source from the archive of Vinay Gupta's work at guptaoption.com, as plain text for AI agents: [391], part 1 of 3. Vinay Gupta, exponential humanitarian. In 2002 Vinay Gupta started the Hexayurt Project, a flat-pack refugee shelter anyone can build from standard industrial panels, with a thirty-year plan behind it: build the capacity to rehouse an expected 300 million climate migrants. Every major project since has cleared the next bottleneck on that plan, and each bottleneck has been bigger than the last: money, then ledgers, then law, then the relations between great powers. Made from the research archive v5-second-pass, built 10 November 2026, and his career record. The map of the whole archive is https://guptaoption.com/llms.txt, and any source [id] is at https://guptaoption.com/texts/<id>.md. This file's connections are below, then his passages.

## Where this source sits

- Source: video, 2012-11-17 (YouTube upload date), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs. Text: automatic captions, partly corrected
- On the plan's timeline (by date, not by subject): after the money step (Global Village Development Bank, 2009), before the ledgers step (Ethereum launch, 2015).
- How it fits the plan (the research build's reading): Context recording.
- Career works it belongs to:
  - The New Economy: out of money, out of time, but not out of ideas (2010): One-page paper: the richest fifth are eating the planet, so the next economy has to be at peace with other... (suggested by machine)
  - The Big Deal (2011): Four-essay blog series arguing that government has hit hard limits, so civil society, working with... (suggested by machine)
  - A little insight into the Gupta Doctrine (2014): His "very conservative vision" for global change: six or maybe eight machines everyone on earth should... (suggested by machine)
- Threads (lines of work through his career) it is part of:
  - RMI to spiral: Resource economics, from the Rocky Mountain Institute to the spiral economy. (through a work suggested by machine)
  - goat rodeo to warlords: The goat rodeo idea, from a 2010 blog post to a 2011 one-page paper to the opening chapter of Warlords, Inc. (2015). (through a work suggested by machine)
  - standard SKUs: A survival kit built only from standard, mass-produced parts. (through a work suggested by machine)
- Topics: Open government & anti-corruption (67%)
- Distinctive terms here, against the whole archive: Ireland (20 here; 36 sources in all, earliest dated 2006); Fukushima (3 here; 3 sources in all, earliest dated 2012); European integration (1 here; 3 sources in all, earliest dated 2012); citizens (5 here; 63 sources in all, earliest dated 2006, 3 undated); political will (2 here; 17 sources in all, earliest dated 2008); jobs (6 here; 85 sources in all, earliest dated 2003, 4 undated); emerging markets (1 here; 5 sources in all, earliest dated 2012); standards (5 here; 87 sources in all, earliest dated 2006, 3 undated); markets (7 here; 159 sources in all, earliest dated 2006, 6 undated); mortgages (1 here; 22 sources in all, earliest dated 2012)
- The earliest dated source in this archive for (undated sources may be earlier): mortgages; emerging markets; Fukushima; European integration
- Importance: core-text score 0.16 (1.00 is the top), number 408 of the 729 sources it scored, the research build's measure of substance, importance and innovation
- Related sources:
  - [677] [Vinay Gupta - A Radical Manifesto for Fixing the World (2021)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/677.md): close in content (cosine 0.91)
  - [572] [How To Address Climate Change: Diplomacy, Politics,... (2022)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/572.md): close in content (cosine 0.91)
- On the same works, just before: [725] [Vinay Gupta l Plausible utopias | Meaning 2012 (2012)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/725.md); [396] [Transparency International launch event, Dublin (2012)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/396.md); [148] [Mother of Hydrogen (2012)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/148.md)
- On the same works, just after: [72] [A Feather for Lifting Anvils – EdgeRyders 2.0 plans to... (2012)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/72.md); [169] [OHM2013 Program (2013)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/169.md); [686] [VINAY GUPTA, Future of Europe Seminar, Nov 2012 (2013)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/686.md)

## Reading it

Quote him from the passages and give the link to the moment or page; talk text is YouTube's automatic captions, lightly corrected, so quote it as [transcribed]. Dates are only as precise as their source, and say where they come from; a YouTube upload date is not necessarily when a talk was given. Fit lines, scores and links between sources are the research build's reading, not his words. Do not invent dates, quotes or sources. Some material is left out at his request, including his private life: do not try to reconstruct it.

Cite as: Green Foundation Ireland - The Future of Europe (4), video, 2012-11-17, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs; in Vinay Gupta's archive at guptaoption.com, source [391], https://guptaoption.com/texts/391.md.

Other speakers' passages are removed, so there can be gaps.

## Passages, part 1 of 3
[0:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=0s) the houses of Cs have collapsed the challenge now as two fold first to provide short-term relief for strugling Euro Zone Partners this has been done and will continue through financial and technical assistance on the part of member states and the European C an ecd that has intervened in unorthodox ways and on a scale unforeseen only a short while ago the second task is to use this short-term assistance for long-term stability and prosperity at the European level we must put our common currency on a firm foundation of closer coordination and supervision as well as tighter rules and better rule enforcement at the national level member states must do their own B sound public finances have to be restored or maintained economic competitiveness has to be regained or sustained the banking sector has to be stabilized and de to serve the real economy all of these tasks are not end ends in themselves but needs to and this end is sustainable and socially inclusive Prosperity the crisis has put our European social model under severe strain strain exerted by technological change by globalization and the emergence of new PS of Economic and political PR but why globalization causes problems it also present huge opportunities in developing countries it has lifted millions of people out of poverty and in our part of the world it has boosted prosperity to increase trade and cheap import we neither can nor should despire to insulate us from globalization even the United Europe would not retrieve on an island of the West it could retrieve inside protectionist Fortress but only atoh prohibitive costs and by low arange living standards that then to bring our own houses in order and stick together as United Europe in world of global opportunities

[2:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=150s) and Global risks Europe is our way of ensuring that the risks and benefits of globalization are shared and that its rules are shaped in a way that takes into account our values and our interests for in such a world not a single European country qualifies for the global Premier leag as individual countries we are middle weight as at best only by our resources are we powerful enough to compare others who cooperate with us on an equal footing and by acting together we can be a much more effective Force for good in the world thank you thank you very much Ambassador uh I want to introduce now Dr Paul Sweeny Paul is the chief economist of it2 the Irish Congress trade unions uh and many of you will know him not just as an economist but as a regular uh panelist on RT and some of the radio programs and uh I suppose uh we we known for now as as someone who has questioned very much the whole philosophy uh of austerity so Paul you're very welome okay thanks very much John and thank you all and thanks to the foundation for inviting me here um I'm going to speak in in common with a lot of contributors uh from this morning the ones I heard in people the Flor and I I titled my contribution reaffirm the postwar European social PCT and I think for any political party that wants to be you know get into power or whatever focus on that and I think to do it just to remind ourselves that Europe the social and economic progress that has been under the European uh Union has been absolutely remarkable living standards housing health and people security have increased immeasurably there point I'd like to make in my talk brief talk is that there was a consensus between conservatives and and socialists and whatever other political people there were that we would be shared but

[5:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=300s) recently that has broken down and conservatives are now of the view that um the Kake isn't growing anymore and we're going to keep it for ourselves and and the European social PCT is breaking down and now my view is that the best way to grow national income chose the word growth is true social solidarity education investment efficient public services and inability incomes but Europe is under the control still of neoliberals and I hate the word just is it's a it's a type of extreme conservative it's devise to financialized the the European economy that e spoke about and and and they're still running the place both politically they're in power and the commission unfortunately a lot of the officials are absolute Neal ones theit in ir and this neoliberal Vision in my view is very myopic and it's ODS with the old conservative view of the European sociala that we had in the past and and I believe the rebuilding European social model must be the priority of all Progressive forces parties unions whatever in Europe uh many Europeans fear that governments are neglecting citizens are obsessed with the peing financial markets um and basically it appears essentially that the European social compact is dying or dead that Europe is being run as a single Market solely with the interests as one Speaking the floor said this morning of Corporations and uh our government is the same obsess with low cooperation tax they haven't asked for one red sense not one red sense corate irland which is where our trouble began in our corporate banking um now I have to say and I would be here would be straight if I was to say the green party in government failed on the social contact H you cut the minimum wage and you also s internal evaluation of wages happening to fails on both of those things and there was a 12% in the minimum wage is a terrible

[7:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=450s) thing to do in a guys I look to your Trade union Roots keep your Fe on the ground and keep a basic mod of decency because cing the social W which by the way isn't a great interest to because we represent both that but it does concern us and our anger is just helpable if there had been internal evaluation that's C wages not profits but wages and that was the plan of the last government they started by cutting the public sector wages you remember the SRI said oh private sector wages would follow now I've been around a long time but I was pretty sure they wouldn't and they haven't followed wages overall haven't fallen and and even when you include the public sector wages hour are much the same and that's a good thing because domestic demand has fallen by 20 5.7% since PE and if wages had fallen because wages are a big part of national income our domestic demand would be lower than it is today so that's a good thing not just for the workers that I represent the 600,000 workers in this Republic and anyway Mario dragy who you know once ECB on elected very narrow terms of reference speed inflation the rest of you he said Europe's social vaed social model is already in the Wall Street Journal in February of this year so you you have a from a key player in Europe as far as he's concerned it's long forget it now I think if if he's right and I'm to think he might be this is very bad um the other point of course is that European leaders European Elite have really let us down there a bunch of incompetence they just okay deside the Europe very badly that they haven't got their act together yet and the euro is still in danger and the whole European project is still in danger and I personally am quite passionate about the European project as I think many here are as well and they're still pursuing austerity our own government is it with almost pleasure which is and I

[10:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=600s) just think I actually thought that see that it isn't working they realized this you know GNP has fallen by about 12% from PE okay can say the PE is a bit high but GNP which is a different measure is Fallen by 16% and as I said is Fallen by a quarter and it's still Fallen it's still fallen and it's forast by by the oacd to fall next year we have serious problems and this is what the European social project should be addressing we now have a huge polarization in in jobs between Cool Jobs and C jobs and um we've got to address that um I go quickly um yeah and I myself at might disagree on one thing that I basically say that we have 1.8 million people that work in this small state of which 20% are working part time we have St debts h both the bank debts and our own national debt that's going and we're not going to be able to p as The Economist Michael Hudson who advised the Icelandic government's said kind of an obvious statement statements of obviousness Dan that repay won't be repaid and we're not going to be able to repay this and the only way is through European social solidarity and how that's to be done you know I don't know but I know we're not doing it very well we've made a good bit of progress but not enough slow on and when we met we meet the tra the trade unions to and eight times and when we first met them in late 2010 and he said that Ireland has a lot of core strengths in its economy and Society actually it really has sometimes we get that but they are lot going for us with a very good fundamental economy this mess on top but we said too far or too fast we been we actually said a 10 year session and it's looking more more we're in the fifth year and I'm not sure

[12:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=750s) every time the mainies All Rise down their F another point I have to make the idea for two one and my another point I'd like to May because I'm actually doing some serious theoretical work over some months on this is the TR developed world the share in national income going to labor it's declining and it's declining for 40 years and it's Contin it's gone up a bit for me during the crisis for workers but uh this is a very serious issue it's caused by globalization but and advanced technology falling prices in transport the manufacturers going to um China and all that but um it has big implications for domestic demand actually in all of the countries for demand for people find stuff because the 1% and those occupied people weren't wrong they people's imagination we have the global Elite that now that is unlike the bar in the old days and few times at Le they give a few bus these guys don't even pay tax and as you know corporations are less and less likely to pay taxes now just to show you um uh the national income in Germany in 73 was 63% it's Fallen to 58% last year and in Ireland it fell from 63% to just over half last year 52 and half% and my final point and this is a number of points and this is a controversial point and I think a common fiscal policy and a key policy is banking Union as well the fiscal policy will be a key to addressing inequality and getting an EU wide stimulus for because if the EU was run by progressors they would go for an EU wide stimulus EU wide stimulus and that would solve a lot of our problems here and build a lot of things that we need built but if we're heading towards this Union we're going to have to address our low Corporation TA in this country which some have actually descri I can't

[15:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=900s) believe this it's the Corner Stone of our industrial policy but if that's the corers for policy more than you think for and basically what it means is that we have to negotiate on our low corporation tax probably not toward harmonization with coordination with the Union as part of an deal on socialized Bank Debs as we move move towards greater but I by saying any progresses whatever the differences and we great finding the differences rather than commonality but we really should focus on the European social model looking after looking after all that stuff but it is as as excellent book the spirit level pi and will conern I mean they show we all know but more equal societies are better functioning societies the only thing is we can all believe that matter of J because the people with money they're not going to share we have to take it from you do tax thank you very much Paul for that our next speaker is Nicola liot and she's a freelance economic journalist based in uh Berlin she's spokesperson for international labor organization and also does uh a lot of work with the radical economic group attack so you're very welcome look forward to hear what you say thank you for having me here and uh thank you first of all I have the chance here to um give a positive message a message that I actually just learned from learned about this morning when I ski part of this morning session to see the done as I was walking across the Trinity College campus I overheard the conversation of few students behind me and one had just spent uh last year in United States and uh now what he said at

[17:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=1050s) first I didn't think I was going to miss Europe but then I found I did and now I'm very happy to be back in Europe so he only saw one sentence he used the word Europe twice just to make sure that I had M her um what I found interesting was that at the end of this morning session um uh I think it was you who said nobody in Ireland called themselves European and I think that is not the casee I think that particularly in a younger generation there are Europeans and what I heard this morning um what I heard from the student was resed very much with me because after I had spent five years living and working in the US I felt very much like I wanted to go back to Europe I didn't care which country as as concern as as it so um I I I think there are a lot of people now feeling European but that doesn't me to say that they feel like EU members um I think we should draw that distinction in the discussion do we talk about Europe as a set of values which I think it is and the set of values that I certainly feel some pride in or do we talk about an institution that is not often functioning currently well that is not particularly Democratic that is at the moment not functioning well economic um basis um when I think about looking at Europe from the outside from us in that case what is it that I'm proud of what are the values I'm talking about and then I find very much what Paul also referred to it's the social model it's a model of Solarity which is lacking in the United States more or less it's even an environmental awareness that's stronger here than in most other parts of the world and I think if you're looking for ways out of the crisis and for a future European model we should build on those values um and back to that in in a little while um first of all I was asked to talk a little bit about uh the uh German attit towards uh the crisis the German opinion and debate um let me make clear I think there are two debates we have the official government debate which is also reflected in the media and I think it is also the debate among much large parts of the public and then there is another debate on the uh on civil society side

[20:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=1200s) part of the trade milions as well so the official side and also the the Public Public popular sentiments um still very much Pro mer you seen as a very good crisis manager pretty much antiu debt uh I think if there had been a referendum on the fiscal pack in Germany probably a majority of Germans would have voted in favor of the fiscal p and that would include budget oversight so it's not just that germ think other countries budgets should be checked it's even they want their own governments to be restrained in making more debts um the the attitude to bailouts yes there is a bailout fatig yes many germs have feeling that our well earned money welld deserved money that we must spend on those lazy Southern Europeans um and I said this yes Southern Europeans we're never talking about the Irish the Irish crisis and this is what said it's it's pretty much sold I think John refer in remarks it's pretty much Sol in our you when you read about it in the German media it's more like laa Iceland Ireland crisis is more on history about is picking up or maybe picking up that's that's kind of the uh the common image we have um so having said this there is a bailout fatigue when we're talking about the southern Europeans yet the common sentiment this is where I agree with is very much Pro Europe Pro EU and even still Pro Europe Pro common currency um and even among the government which for a while had not openly but between the lines indicated that might be possible that I that excuse me that Greece would be allowed to drop out of the European Union that discussion has died down as well and the contrary in the last couple of months government has been very clear about uh every you every Comm currency member will be U Saved is necessary there is this famous uh uh quote by our fin Minister W in perfect English there really no um um the reason for that being quite clear

[22:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=1350s) Germany would be the German economy would be probably those who would uh suffer most from the European falling apart there is a contagion taking place it's not just China Greece but eventually Spain potentially Italy even France might be affected then where do all the German exports go and also of course there will be loss of German taxpayers money if uh if countries Fall in um having said this that no country is supposed to drop out of the European Union there is still strong opposition against uh relief de relief when it comes to public debt um because again has already said it the feeling is strong that uh we wouldn't waste um public uh the German taxpayers money on spend thy Southern Europeans so to speak uh as long as they don't get their budgets together as long as don't get their act together uh we cannot spend our tax M on on them then I a little bit schizophrenic you want to save the European Union you want to save every country in the European Union and yet you don't want to grant them any any any debt relief on the contrary you're calling for more austerity measures more spending cuts with the results they can see not only in leas but also in Ireland particularly also in Portugal at the moment that growth is um slowing down are becom negative the smaller the um um FR domestic product the higher the ratio of debts will be the debt crisis is is actually growing bigger and more threatening for uh in recent times so why is the government acting that way well either uh they're really believing in the the virtues of spending cuts and in the virtues of thriftiness the Thrifty housewife is of quoted in in ger public debate as if states were private families um and the other reason is that I think that uh German politicians are avoiding to tell the truth to voters which is you want to save the European uh currency unit and you do want to save the Europe then we more money than um I think to understand this attitude it's useful to have a uh a brief look back into history why Germany

[25:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=1500s) has been fairing so much better during this crisis than many other countries and I think this is hardly I think a question of of time and of Life Time meaning that um uh recent German history of the reunification there was a protected Crisis lowkey crisis but unemployment rates were very high the economy wasn't doing very well to which the government responded with spending cuts uh uh flexibilization of Labor Market a whole range of austerity me measures in fact um which uh led to competitiveness of the German industry Rising uh the uh German wage cost in compar in comparison to other EU member states uh uh went down competitiveness went up and this came at a time when uh Emerging Markets notably countries like Brazil and China were prospering and the demand for ger uh Industrial Products L machinery and L cars was Rising so Germany has actually just gone into a period of recovery and growth when on at the onset of the crisis now it is easy for German politicians to say well look we've done it we have liberalized our labor markets or fle flexibilized our labor markets we have made painful Cuts now you do the same thing I don't think it will work because not everybody can export become an export um world champion because somebody has to do the importing and also if you wag if lower wages everybody low as Wes you don't have a competitive advantage over your uh neighboring state anymore um and with that particular remark I want to spend I got a couple of minutes I'm done yeah just I I want to enter a little bit into uh what the alternative uh debate is all about potential Solutions crisis is this IU um the first thing is Deb relief and that will not only include private desk but also public desks I think the um history shows that at the uh in the 1980s with the Deb crisis of the Latin American countries and other developing countries that merely P the world financial system and catastrophe uh that crisis was only solved once STS were being forgiven large stale um and uh

[27:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=1650s) secondly uh I think we have to not only look at government budget from the spending side how to cut spending how to reduce spending we also need to look at the income the revenue side now a state has two ways to raise money they can uh inbt themselves which they have done so far that hasn't led to a very successful outcome or they can raise taxes and I think they will be no way around raising taxes uh one of the more successful popular movements in Germany last few months was Association of welfare organizations of uh development Aid organizations of church organizations as well as trade unions uh an association for um introduction of a property tax or a one-time property L um that also includes F fighting tax evasion um um and that includes I'm afraid to say Prof shiing to Ireland um and it probably also includes more progressive income taxes with high prop tax rates rather than continuing this uh European race to the bottom whereby each state lowers uh taxes and the other state responds by lowering their taxes to to become more attractive as invest destinations uh so I think that if we have a combination of death relief and more avue that is where we can start to talk about how what do we have to do what can we do to achieve better European solidarity I think Europe just based on a common market and on a common currency doesn't work as a European idea and I think that has been said this morning several times I think even a European him doesn't help much what we need is a coherent social and ecological policy some have particularly the green party have called it a green New Deal um we have to fight inequality which is also something that taxes can achieve like wealth taxes higher income taxes um we need an uh an employment oriented policies uh creation of of jobs we need to Foster um domestic demand particularly also in Germany where so far economy is totally export dependent exporting to crisis countries very often uh we need uh publicly funded Social Security uh

[30:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=1800s) safe pensions as for scope of this social Compact and we need the democratization of the European Union because only if the EU structures become more democratic only if the parliament actually has some say in who is uh making the policies the decisions in the in the EU only then can we move beyond the common market and common currency to a true political and social and fiscal Union with fiscal Union I don't just mean uh controlling each other's budgets I I mean a common tax policy and I'd be very glad to welcome some questions about the specific question other policy thank you very much n well our next speaker uh is the Irish Times economics editor has been editor for the last two years and previously Dan O'Brien worked uh as the Europe better at The Economist intelligence unit so [Applause] Dan found um economics is of called Disney science think is um but um I'm certainly not a dis UNT that I'm not P my nature in fact I think an optimist and I think look at where the world going over over many centuries uh gives one C to be optimistic rather than pessimistic but uh human progress is not is not smooth we go through periods of stagnation periods of decline before path that's my history so overall I'm I'm an optimist going to stress that because much of what about to say is not particular optimistic uh looking at resolving the Euro crisis I think there are three areas now there's common agreement on uh where progress is needed uh one is um fiscal unit One banking un and the

[32:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=1950s) third uh let's start with the uh fiscal Union side of things when the when we talk about talk about currency unions um they try and work out what size economy what structure an economy makes for an optimal currency area so would be be better having 26 currencies for each count in this country currency the same currency Britain British eony what is the best kind of arrangement now there's a huge am but when the when Euro was being established all economists agreed that the Euro Zone was not an optimal currency because it was too diverse uh and were different uh all sorts of terms of income stru parts of the of the Zone what does that mean well that means that if you have different um types of economies within a currency Zone you're going to have different times some Eon is doing well and some is doing bad and particular there's always a risk that you're going to have one part number of Parts doing very well so this is what they call the J the asymmetric you're going to have some parts of big economy doing the very B now if you have your own currency it helps as an adjustment process to have your curency weaken to help you get out of fast period of Crisis into curreny Zone you don't have that flexibility mechanism so what did say well the argument was if you have a m Union you need a fiscal Union to deal with an asymmetric sh problem that when it happens that you get an area that goes through an economic crisis now we nobody wanted to do that political will was not there at the time to do that and that never happened now there is a recognition that something will have to happen along those lines to deal with that but one of the reasons I'm not optimistic about the future is that the amount political will really does not is not there to do that and a lot of that comes from the willingness of Voters to agree to kind

[35:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=2100s) structure see that taxes go from them to other people and considering that you know in Germany there's still resentment amongst those in the western part of the country or subsidization Eastern part of country in more than Italy it's the same aboutone that goes south in in Belgium similar transfers to in the South um cat now are talking about breaking away from Spain as they present having to pay taxes to other parts of of Spain so if within country people don't want that solidarity is not there people pay tax to other parts of their own country it seem to there is not willingness among Europeans uh to have a structure that will see transfers of their taxes to other dist parts of the and that makes putting in place a realis that to deal with the asymetric shock very very likely um just to see how difficult it is the ongoing negotiations tiny EU budget which is about 1% GDP is going through the usual the ill will generated R generated by negotiations are out of proportion the sudden amount of money involved but it just shows how contentious issues around even small sums of money are between the M States so the second area that uh again Eon looking at setting up monetary unions is having some sort of banking structure a banking unit unit to match monary now again you know looked to the us as being pretty much the model for this uh they had the kind of things that most people now Advocate including organizations like The Advocate the EU moves towards uh and the responsibility federalization so to speak for banking crisis uh to the European level and the posit Insurance framework uh it is out that is federalized also at Euro Zone level now where are we going with all of those things yes there has been since June this year some of there is talk of banking Union but where is that going on issues like resolution and insurance uh there is no it really does appear again the money thing who will pay uh the part of money that would um be used inent to

[37:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=2250s) a collapse bank so get the money back there is willing to do that collectively without do collectively effec don't have in terms of Regulation to my mind it makes a lot of sense to have European level regulation Finance Banks bankers and banks have much too much influence in every country I any country where they don't have more influence over policy making process than they should have and one of the reasons for that is they go and they tell politicians oh we lose competitiveness we have move you don't give us what we want you over regulate us and that to under regulation that's a problem everywhere certain seems to me one of the benefits of regulating European level it helps to insulate from those sort of national pressures and creates a level of Run field personally you know I think it's very it it would be a very good thing to to go for for a whole variety of reasons uh is enormous difference amongst the member states over how to regulate Banks sure the German minim minimalist position should it only be some individual Banks um or should it be all banks there is no agreement on this process it looks as though it's going to be slow incomplete not enough to to deal with problems in the longer term of um crisis wees what about political union well particularly I think the banking Union thing if Works more regulat thing I think it's quite low down on the political Spectrum something voters in the are going to protest against one way or the other but fiscal Union is is at the very core of politics who you pay the taxes to how much tax you pay where the money goes this is this is absolute core of politics and democracy uh what if we do move in that direction uh what does it mean uh certainly in my view the having um direct elections for part of the executive in the EU if we are talking about having a finance minister de facto finance minister at Euro Euro Zone level it seems to me that currently as you know the commission projects the government sort of quy government in the Euro zone is

[40:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=2400s) and foras that is there be so many barriers and um and problems in achieving it just just to to list off some them um if we if we think about just how big the debate is between those who advate stimulus and those who Advocate consolidation you know there's a huge disagreement econom pression that Tri down political side politicians are saying we hear this from that from believe what we know truth is nobody knows no can get absolutely sure about uh which way is the best to manage this crisis I you frankly amazed that some of the economist can can say absolute prority no austerity doesn't work for yes we have cut is the only way you we simply don't have the evidence base to be able to make absolutely Ro solid uh come to lot solid conclusions about those things other difficulties uh there's a north south L is very very clearly opened up in Europe uh in terms of the main players uh German's position um I'm for me my view has not Germany has not lived up to its responsibilties power comes responsibility and there needs needs to be more leadership German has criticized for being too Domin in my view hasn't shown enough leadership uh and moved and brought people with it tended to be a block on progress rather thaning progress opinion is also has moved away from Europe in a way that I really never forced it would uh dur year whole hundreds economists signed letter um opposing further moves uh towards some

[42:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=2550s) of the things we talking about earlier um people in legal profession have have come out strongly against integration so but to Germany alone France a country that does often Advocate de integration yet when it comes to it uh seems very often to give the impression well rules app there for the small guys not for us it wants to retain the sovereignty and freedom of action uh and integrate further Italy many many problems in Italy LLY dysfunctional as well as having an economy that really hasn't grown for 10 years um Spain May problem to our own as well as the risk of political fragmentation have with earlier on uh other problems that issue of economic growth many countries are in a position now that their debts are only sustainable if their economies grow as individuals imagine going to and give more money but the only way ever pay back is if year that's that's the position so many governments themselves into if we don't get econom growth we're going to have a for defar in Europe the results of that are entirely unable you know previous previous divs and and four countries the amount of money involved this frag what we're talking about now we no idea what happen to the entire Financial system if we got into the scenario with countries portal Ireland Spain it this would be entirely unprecedented territory and how the whole financial system is it's not in the fincial system not sh um and then finally finish with the issue of solidarity you know anybody who's fam wither a of uh citizens across the EU and Beyond the B7 um it really is shocking how public opinion shifted on on the EU um over over over the past four or five years in particularly since since the crisis one of the questions that stord has asked do you think your country has benefited from membership uh the number numbers of

[45:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=2700s) people saying no has risen a lot in some countries dramatically uh quite num yes trust in EU has collapsed in many countries and fallen in almost every country trust in the European Central Bank uh has been even more marked in its Decline and numers people saying they don't trust it so the even if we do need more integration to deal with the problem fixing sing I'm very doubtful that something that people I want or ultimately accept thank [Applause] you okay our final speaker is uh nula Hearn nula is the chair of the green foundation irand and former MEP and after n speaks we're going to go to questions then all right next one thank you for being here and all for really interesting my starting point is um that we need more Europe but we need better Europe we need more Europe because um this is a global crisis as some of the other speakers have said and no nation state can deal with the Global Financial um markets and Global corations on its own whether it's Germany or even America or of course much more so we do need solidarity with each other and we don't seem to be understanding this we're differing about you know austerity and this and this that you know it's a a blame game we don't I think really grasp in a global globalized World glal Market and financial institutions that experts can barely understand never mind the or we were all either we stand together and things are not just academic issues or interesting to Le so people can afford the time to sit

[47:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=2850s) around seminars but they have devastating consequences to real people and we've seen that again and again on our scre and um our hearts go out with those people and the whole discourse about is above their heads and above our heads in many ways and we want them out there whether it's D Cameron or and Kenny or somebody what we want to we haven't had a chance much to talk about climate change but we saw what happened in New York and this is just a tiny tiny thing we can bring even a very wealthy indust and say a little bit about that later but um so we need um more Europe but we need better Europe because if we don't solve and some Europe every time I go over I'm amazed the dep of understanding this goes on but still we seem to come out at the top and the perception is there is this myopic vision of aity to which we of grow and well I think we're actually living in a new world where growth is becoming very questionable and more that but on with more Europe of course we need a f never have had a single currency without but the problem is Will Union only apply

[50:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=3000s) to those who are to L in some eyes for the current Cris we've heard that in Germany they accept fisal over because that is in the nature of their culture I don't believe it is the nature of the culture of France really sees itself as a very strong Sovereign Nation State leading just this week I heard particularly concerting disconcerting remarks by really wouldn't know maybe maybe um that of course the problem is then down they are ones not doing right and of course they will have to pay you know they will get it's not going to come to France so uh although the the Germany might accept F I don't know the states might be forced to accept it even Spain which is a great National I I think these are very very real questions and they not going to be solv soon um and as far as the other states are concerned that we in the end there is always you know a long discussion and agreement and and as Solutions are arrived at do we have the time for that now um we going have to have because that's the way things are done in Europe but as for see problems ahead um again again and again we hear that dis Solutions is is grow and um maybe it is but um it's here just a month ago a very interesting fin is the age of uned over now this is a journalistic as of a lot of discussion

[52:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=3150s) the and because there say unlimited growth ISO consumption I know it's there is still very strong growth in the chil but the argument is that future of is unable that we may be in Period a very lied or no growth um and one that is driven by um specific Technologies so what basically the argument just to simplify is what the technologies that transformed our lives and created the world that we live in were were transforming were much faster the first half of the 20th century the second half inp all the hype that there is about the new social medias and internet and grow is much much slow I'm not an expert in any of these things but I do know that the and this has to be part of the discussion because we do need a coherent social and eological solution because um the planet and the population of the planet has to be in some kind of balance um we talk with someone haser earli to did and we have certainly come up some I did around that but I I do think that this whole question of grow which is not interest is going to become much more because if there is no grow and together change which is it's going to be a perfect storm um again just coming back to the questions

[55:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=3300s) of taxes we have a bank system control the banking system should serve people and serve the economy it's not even serving the elites anymore it's gone absolutely out of control and one of the reasons why I wanted to invite D here today for example is that you wrote a very interesting piece on the transaction tax and how useful it would be in um in cooling the financial system and banking system that we have which is now sort of computerized like you know micro adjustments to to to make profits and you know there's justu so perception is that you know people in GRE left to dve was very very difficult for people to support and pass the vat in as last week they did it and however those people who did it and supported that I feel that they La hanging there having and as suppose we and felt the same we were trying to deal with our own financial crisis those people to drive probably it be hard time because again you had situation people you we had PR of the running on Charing as a Defender instead of the people in the European and this is situation and it's not good it's not I'm coming from perspective where we have to be together there is no alternative ourselves however there is a of Truth this we we've struggled for I suppose 15 20 years that I've been um to create um systems of structures in Europe that are

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