# Green Foundation Ireland - The Future of Europe (4) (part 2 of 3)

> One source from the archive of Vinay Gupta's work at guptaoption.com, as plain text for AI agents: [391], part 2 of 3. Vinay Gupta, exponential humanitarian. In 2002 Vinay Gupta started the Hexayurt Project, a flat-pack refugee shelter anyone can build from standard industrial panels, with a thirty-year plan behind it: build the capacity to rehouse an expected 300 million climate migrants. Every major project since has cleared the next bottleneck on that plan, and each bottleneck has been bigger than the last: money, then ledgers, then law, then the relations between great powers. Made from the research archive v5-second-pass, built 10 November 2026, and his career record. The map of the whole archive is https://guptaoption.com/llms.txt, and any source [id] is at https://guptaoption.com/texts/<id>.md. This file's connections are below, then his passages.

## Where this source sits

- Source: video, 2012-11-17 (YouTube upload date), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs. Text: automatic captions, partly corrected
- On the plan's timeline (by date, not by subject): after the money step (Global Village Development Bank, 2009), before the ledgers step (Ethereum launch, 2015).
- How it fits the plan (the research build's reading): Context recording.
- Career works it belongs to:
  - The New Economy: out of money, out of time, but not out of ideas (2010): One-page paper: the richest fifth are eating the planet, so the next economy has to be at peace with other... (suggested by machine)
  - The Big Deal (2011): Four-essay blog series arguing that government has hit hard limits, so civil society, working with... (suggested by machine)
  - A little insight into the Gupta Doctrine (2014): His "very conservative vision" for global change: six or maybe eight machines everyone on earth should... (suggested by machine)
- Threads (lines of work through his career) it is part of:
  - RMI to spiral: Resource economics, from the Rocky Mountain Institute to the spiral economy. (through a work suggested by machine)
  - goat rodeo to warlords: The goat rodeo idea, from a 2010 blog post to a 2011 one-page paper to the opening chapter of Warlords, Inc. (2015). (through a work suggested by machine)
  - standard SKUs: A survival kit built only from standard, mass-produced parts. (through a work suggested by machine)
- Topics: Open government & anti-corruption (67%)
- Distinctive terms here, against the whole archive: Ireland (20 here; 36 sources in all, earliest dated 2006); Fukushima (3 here; 3 sources in all, earliest dated 2012); European integration (1 here; 3 sources in all, earliest dated 2012); citizens (5 here; 63 sources in all, earliest dated 2006, 3 undated); political will (2 here; 17 sources in all, earliest dated 2008); jobs (6 here; 85 sources in all, earliest dated 2003, 4 undated); emerging markets (1 here; 5 sources in all, earliest dated 2012); standards (5 here; 87 sources in all, earliest dated 2006, 3 undated); markets (7 here; 159 sources in all, earliest dated 2006, 6 undated); mortgages (1 here; 22 sources in all, earliest dated 2012)
- The earliest dated source in this archive for (undated sources may be earlier): mortgages; emerging markets; Fukushima; European integration
- Importance: core-text score 0.16 (1.00 is the top), number 408 of the 729 sources it scored, the research build's measure of substance, importance and innovation
- Related sources:
  - [677] [Vinay Gupta - A Radical Manifesto for Fixing the World (2021)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/677.md): close in content (cosine 0.91)
  - [572] [How To Address Climate Change: Diplomacy, Politics,... (2022)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/572.md): close in content (cosine 0.91)
- On the same works, just before: [725] [Vinay Gupta l Plausible utopias | Meaning 2012 (2012)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/725.md); [396] [Transparency International launch event, Dublin (2012)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/396.md); [148] [Mother of Hydrogen (2012)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/148.md)
- On the same works, just after: [72] [A Feather for Lifting Anvils – EdgeRyders 2.0 plans to... (2012)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/72.md); [169] [OHM2013 Program (2013)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/169.md); [686] [VINAY GUPTA, Future of Europe Seminar, Nov 2012 (2013)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/686.md)

## Reading it

Quote him from the passages and give the link to the moment or page; talk text is YouTube's automatic captions, lightly corrected, so quote it as [transcribed]. Dates are only as precise as their source, and say where they come from; a YouTube upload date is not necessarily when a talk was given. Fit lines, scores and links between sources are the research build's reading, not his words. Do not invent dates, quotes or sources. Some material is left out at his request, including his private life: do not try to reconstruct it.

Cite as: Green Foundation Ireland - The Future of Europe (4), video, 2012-11-17, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs; in Vinay Gupta's archive at guptaoption.com, source [391], https://guptaoption.com/texts/391.md.

Other speakers' passages are removed, so there can be gaps.

## Passages, part 2 of 3
[57:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=3450s) functional and will work citizens understand all of that time the bottom line is that the European Council has been in charge uh it is still in charge that's the reality and there isn't the kind over that the European and CI are right to leers of of counil disrespects I would agree we want strong leadership [Music] and very here okay thank you we're going to uh I have a number of speakers who are indicating already what I'd like to do is to uh group questions together down question come back and answer the questions it's better if we take group we get through it quite a number of people before we do that just I already T our colleagues in the GRE European Foundation I also want to thank OT of group Foundation as well who who uh have helped us enormously over the years as well and thank them and just one all according to the S every one of them were Progressive budgets and the first budget of the incoming government was regressive and maybe you might want to comment on that yourself but it's

[1:00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=3600s) that's also an important point I could into more detail about what R said to us at the time etc etc but I won't I won't do that okay we take the questions that if when you're when you're when you're asking the question if you were just if you're belonging to an organization if you just say who you are what the organization is so they get the context so if we'll just first okay want to hand the mic telly helloing yeah yeah working very my name is Ross Ross BR I'm from the green party and my question is primarily directed at the um German ambassador as we know as a result of the crisis private debt was socialized a lot of that private debt particularly in Ireland um was Germany's debt and so you talk about the mutual Iz ation in the Euro bonds as being off the table because of the risk to German taxpayers but in essence the Irish taxpayers have taken the German taxpayers risk that they they have when investing in irand maybe I could also say that um you know the consequence of of German policy uh in grease is literally we have people eating out of bins um to feed themselves and I see you know how is that in any way justifiable as a means to any end maybe if I can answer get the the final point big question that I would like to ask the big question really is all about this the whole issue is about politics and we um the the discussion there that economics described as a science but economics is just a fancy word for politics and and really I I studied it so I know John bar here thankfully T me that um um but the question is really it's all about the fiscal Compact and in a sense the fiscal compact it Outlaws a whole political choice I in economics so isn't that way isn't that is that in any way Democratic thank you than sbert greenest just to thank everybody for their contrib and for our European guest there's two things you can do tonight there's a musical it's called Ang Bank the rise and fall of this banking which made the biggest banking l in history ever anywhere in the world number two there's a group now of um

[1:02:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=3750s) economists and commentators doing B the shows a five show and they tell you how angry you should be about what went on and that they never forecasted of course and so finally getting to the the question uh for the panel economic forecasting was really inventive so of astrology made I am I don't not with any parting that my question would be to the P can you outline any way that AR could maintain a competitive Advantage compared to other countries in Europe should we bring our corporation tax in line with the European Union all right we're going to take them in batches of three so we'll take those three questions if we could have responses I think start with you SC yes of course sure okay great um now as I said at the beginning of my talk I consider this to be an induran dial so I be frank as well and thank you for your friends yeah you're perfectly entitled uh to criticize us um and what we're doing today is engaging in a dialogue about the right way ahead you know there views and by the way this is not my personal view uh it's not even the view of the present government um as you may know in about the years F there will be a general election um and forecasting the outcome of elction is probably more difficult then forecasting economy REM the definition of economist The Economist is someone who will tell you tomorrow why things he predicted just they didn't happen today there also another I have kind of collected numers person accountant

[1:05:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=3900s) proben more you try to listen our own common sense now Common Sense tells me tells by way people because I don't expect even changeing government don't expect major changeing policy in Germany uh um just two days ago uh the leader or the co- leer of part thead ofy has corespond with um get interv to one ofj ladies um in the chancellor for not being Thrift enough you in terms of bringing down our debt not in terms of what some of you talk imposing austerity which we totally reject we're not imposing austerity on others but he was kind of saying you know you are not doing what you set up to do and if implicity was saying we were to take over government he is one of the inspir to become our next fin way we have to do what necessary to bring as well so even if change in government I don't think the basic policy approach will change because this is reflect and not just of the government and in so so uh don't expect that will be a change of government we do reject that weos as I said imposing austerity on others when you look back and what I said theour the main sour of the first one is public and prate this country suffer is still suffering the from from the b in this country and part of it was a property B was a banking b the credit

[1:07:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=4050s) B and this is not just it's in many other countries that that countries have lived beyond their means and they are now paying out for this you may not like it but that's that's the brutal reality that it's coming to haunt us that we have not lived many many countries have not lived within their and by the way I'm not saying this in kind of lecturing I'm speaking from firsthand German experience because I think it was already mentioned we were in trouble in economic and deep trouble in the first half of the last decade Mrs NE mentioned you may not I don't she use the term agenda 2010 was launched in Germany in 2003 because of the Inman so Germany was in deep trouble during the time and then we had to launch this reform Pro process program uh which was called agenda 2010 and I think Mr was right in saying that in in a kind of way we are lucky because we are benefiting from being the first mover having to do this um we had to bring down all public deficits but even more important we had to regain Global competitiveness and that's why Germany is so strong we had to do certain structural reforms and not just cutting back back on welfare benefits for examp no the main thing that was that happen since the agenda 2010 was launched was regaining competitiveness in German Enterprises um and that's why Germany is so strong today yes it was there was way to strength more than this it is true yeah uh and uh and we had over a number of years uh zero increase in wages in Germany so yes there was tightening in

[1:10:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=4200s) Germany but look where we are today yeah being the strongest economy in Europe so we had to launch the structure reform both in terms of the public in terms of the budget but all even more important in terms of regain competitiveness on a global scale and this is what we what we did uh and and uh we are now reaping the fruits the benefits of this reform process um so uh just to mention that uh what we have been doing is not something that I say as as a p for everybody to do I'm not saying that just emulate the ger role model role model all will be fine no every state every country every member state has to find its own model but please you have to be competitive in the global economy in order to survive in order to generate the kind of revenues that we need that we all need to support what has been rightly called the European social model um and if I may I would just like to quote uh uh what the leading um European politicians said recently in brou in speech and I won't disclose the name of this politician because you might be surprised where she's from oh I shouldn't have said she anyway uh because Paul said Europe is still being dominated by this NE liberal ideology or philosophy now listen what thiser had to say in Brussels in in R sorry but it is too easy and flat out WR to name the EU for the introduction of the Euro for the current hardship in many European countries no the problem was rather that members members failed to keep their own house in order many member states did not make ends meet they did not reform and consolidate in the Boon years which should have prepared them for when the circle turned and on top of that member states have longstanding structural deficiencies in labor and product markets that became a barrier to growth in an Ever more competitive global economy now guess who said this not Chan it sounds like right no

[1:12:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=4350s) the Danish Prime Minister and she is a Social Democrat so it's not just us who think that the problems go deeper than just you know uh the usual economic cycle no the crisis is unprecedented that we are in uh and and uh we need to Launch uh as individual member states and together in order to solidify the EUR we need to launch a reform process that that is much more ambitious than just throwing money at the problem this won't do it now uh you talked about this being German debt uh I I just don't understand why this is ger de that was accumulated in this country International debt no no no this is Europe thing yeah uh this happened in this country there were foreigns involved certainly no doubt about that German EV but the jurisdiction was in this country and they actually came to this country sorry I have to say this John they came to this country because of Regulation and because of the Tex yeah that's why they came here yeah but responsibility and please don't get me wrong but I have to say this the responsibility is with you with the Irish people what happened in this country now how to deal with this is another question and yes of course we do realize that that this is a burden on the Irish economy on the Irish people that is almost unbearable so yes we are ready to extend solidarity we have extended solidarity not just to but to other countries as well there are three countries at the present time probably will be more I regret to say three countries that have soal being let's say called an adjustment program basically it's a day program three countries now who is backing these this rescue packages these the support now it's the European Union and the IMF but as I said at this present time Germany is the anchor of the Euro Zone

[1:15:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=4500s) it's also the anchor of all these rescue programs if we were to lose our Tri status you would be in real trouble and why are we still enjoying Tri because of the reforms that we launched in the first half of the last decade now another point is um the fiscal compact you said Outlaws Canan economics I think this is plainly wrong what the fiscal compact does is asking every member state to have a balanced budget now why is this out CH in economic that's all it does actually calls about the structural deficit .5% the structural deficit means that this should be no more than 0.5 over the C that's the definition of structural deficit so there is some new way for doing things you know when when the economy conract contracts even in the fiscal compact but the point of about the fiscal compact is and to us this is fisal responsibility austerity is that in the in over in the median and long run you have to live within your own means and this applies to the private sector it also applies to the public sector which does not exclude that you can do stimul some stimulus if this is required and look what we have been doing in my country in 2008 and 2009 there what a huge stimulus program even in Germany because our economy was Contracting about more than 5% so we launched the stimulus program yes we did cost scheme for example yeah and we will get to do this in the future as well but what is important is to ensure that member states and this was back to this point that in order to uh to for the common currency to survive in the long run you have to have a fiscal Union and fiscal un means fiscal responsibility in all those taking part in the FIS so this is what the fiscal comp do you and by the way uh we introduced a soal Deb bre into our constitution uh so because just to make

[1:17:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=4650s) sure that um you know that the public deficit remains under control in the long one we will probably and please don't quote me on this we will probably never ever pay back all all the public debt and you don't have to you can live with a certain level of public debt sure you can yeah but if it's if it becomes excessive you are in real trouble and why because you are at the mercy of the market if if you have if you accumulate excessive deficit at the mercy of the market and would you rather be at the mercy of the markets than being a member of the European Union of a fisal union that when it comes to the crunch member states are willing to extend solidarity to each other and please what I said is is is is strongly ingrained deeply ingrained let's say in the German approach in the Euro Zone and to the European Union as such we know where we are we know that we depend on on Democratic and political stability in our neighborhood we know that we depend on others being prosperous as well we will not benefit in the long run from posing asperity on others and seeing others collaps no it's quite the opposite Germany needs prosperous neighborhood because we are not only because we are an exporting Nation but this is not just about economic prosperity and stability it's about my about much more it's about political stability what we have achieved sorry we have achiev after the second world war and Germany indeed is the main beneficiary of this is building peace Community the community of stable peace and Europe now why is the European un being awarded the noal Peace Prize because this is indeed a historic achievement and uh and we Germans are cely aware that this is something that is basically guaranteed by European integration and by a stable and prosperous neighborhood one question from this gentleman I think you asked specifically about corporation tax and ask Only You comp

[1:20:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=4800s) you first of all because it's important what I was asking is um the conversation here today has being about U consolidation of fiscal rules and appears so Ireland is getting a lot of pressure to bring our corporation tax in European average how could we maintain a competive Advantage being a peripheral country if this was to take place the official German Liney on this is yeah no we are not um exerting pressure on others we are not let say advocating we are a common tax rate across Europe we are not but we do recognize that there need to be let's say yeah flexibility that's what just way even on tax rates what we are advocating at the present time is a common tax Bas but not tax R rate sorry tax rate yeah um we do recognize that for countries such as is there's a good argument to be made for for your corporation TX it's part of the Irish business and as I said we want your country to recover and Thrive we want other countries to recover and be uh prosperous members of the European Union because that is to our ultimate benefit yeah and this is part of your business model now whether it needs to have 12.5% that's for you to decide yeah and and also please keep in mind that there is a difference between noral and real always they always yeah so Germany is not pushing for common tax rate across the board in Europe there will have to be and then mention this as part of the political union yes there will have to be deeper integration further integration if we want to stabilize the common currency that's for sure and then the tax issue will come up but our policy is not that there be a common tax rate across the board in Europe okay and

[1:22:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=4950s) I said other speakers want to respond if you could respond briefly because there are many people that want to get in so I really do want to jump in in here because I'm a board member of the international tax Justice Network and such I also did some research actually PhD TX Poli int competition and therefore I do somewhat competent to answer this question actually um uh it's interesting that the Irish government has been extremely successful in portraying this policy as a clever and innocent piece of industrial policy of creating jobs and it has hidden successfully the actual Financial interests that are because much of ir policy is not compies producing workers tax policies towards International final companies including German companies who have benefited of not just the low tax rates in particular low regulation and low of transparency according to the OCD which has def tax tax rates are one aspect actually a tax rate 12.5% compared to tax what doation of so for instance have installed Financial Vehicles they're not even subsidiaries there are Vehicles outside their books to speculate for instance with sub mortgages from the US they have done it in Ireland not just because the tax was low but because oversight was low because they were able to do it here and not only some well at high costs of the ger tax payers uh and so I think a country that bases its competitive Ed on such a policy is's doing the wrong thing also for it own people because those Banks created I think maybe a handful jobs in D Watchman and cleaning personel that's uh the recent research publiced in in Britain about Starbuck and will also show how the Irish tax B is really working it's not that those countries are not only that those countries are shifting profits from other European countries to their soal headquarters in

[1:25:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=5100s) Ireland um they are actually using to fun their profits through again using the L of overide they they're not they only pay 12% but at least say stat some at the disadvantage loss of the other Europe States BR in that Cas but in reality countries have taken their profits follow than through Ireland to proper tax Havens Caribbean sty with 0% taxes so that is not a competitive Advantage for Ireland at all um it is not in the Irish interest to uh to to try to prevent attack solidarity within the European and existing European commission is at the moment discuss proposal cons tax base that is not def tax rate even though IV minim tax R not is% only those profits that are actually generated in the country in Ireland with Irish and not the profits that are being shifted across borders just for tax purposes just shifted in the bo so I think there are some progress is is happening there the Irish government I to say is one of the British they are those propos um where else does a this competitive Advantage lie just to say a few things well I don't think Taxas as I said I think and I think the G um is a good example for that I think you need an industrial base I think you need for the it companies you need a knowledge base you already have good advantage that is the English language which is much better than in countries like this originally uh but you cannot just rely on financial services and tax

[1:27:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=5250s) billion mainly because of and then this issue how know how forc Banks this decisions made by by my EC forc the IR government pay billion thing but by my calculation 65 billion that we out put BS 60 was both administrations did themselves and five was by thec so you know even in terms seems to be bling Outsiders or I just think that's something un corporation tax I totally agree said I think the government needs to differentiate strategy on this the local is extremely important for this country because that is the most Dam part of this economy and it is tax very important part

[1:30:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=5400s) attracting but allies to like n feel qualified to speak about this I was both the tax inspector and perhaps more importantly maybe I shouldn't admit this but I was on the government committee that recommended the 122% back in the mid90s I did of course to sense I thought the late then was 35% it had been 50 and it was programmed to fall down to 125% noral and I use the word noral advis as eart and others have said the effective rate as far as we know is 45% that's what companies pay 62% of companies in our pay any tax and I can bore you with the figures uh myself I think the game is up I don't think we succeed in preserving it and I think um that the government has it head in the sand I has it helped us it certainly has we had first mover Advantage but other countries are bringing down their tax rates it's a race towards the bottom it's not good for Citizens uh and I think in our budget submission we've always con stands for a 20% rate H down from 35 with the Restriction of the lces this year we

[1:32:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=5550s) changed we want to 2 and a half% it's must we got pressurized by multinational companies or shop stewards to lay off on it so this year we said look if they pay 2% or half a percent effective rate more um 2 and a half% more would be um um would be about let me just about 2 billion so they lot of money they currently pay two 4 billion in tax at four or 5% so we got a bit more to hav a bloody redent the country is in crisis as I said because of the corporate sector the banking or indigenous banking sector and D made a very good point just as anide Ty real uh it was a disaster and it was no regulation I was not which record the national competitiveness Council and and I recommend you read the report you actually want to understand what competitiveness is about it ain't about unit labor cost which most economists seem to think but do read the reports on the for Force website but on that Council in the year 2006 the council all the other members 16 recommended lower direct taxes during the bo and less regulation and particularly less Financial regulation so we'd encourage in as I said to them we looking for putting drug dealers and money launderers to come into the IFC happily I wrote a Minority Report long people are K but the rest of them stood over out R but that was the just five or six years ago low regulation low taxes my final point I used to be a microeconomist I used to spend a lot of time out in companies particularly multinationals I often I dealt with the finance person I always ask a point uh how important is the low corporation tax here and for so much asess important for most they came here for multiple of reasons of which it might be one and one company I always remember was on the news last night say which one it was thinking still exist impressive compan should we have a big place in we don't need but really the final thing is it's

[1:35:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=5700s) about time we Europe and only Europe can do it this Camp down on those tax Havens within the European geography Monaco Andor the Channel Islands all of we have to we have to clamp down on corporates and individual avoiders and evaders our next round of questions and Tommy could give the mic out I don't know if the M you probably don't need the mic actually because the bocks are very good okay uh very briefly questions only Dan starting with questions uh the the fact that the ECB is structured along lines that inflation has been controlled at a level that since the German economy has been one of the contributing factors that it need to be put into the mix that it has had an effect on certain economies that needs to be put into overall sment is eventually agreed I accept the point has been made about HP state but there's also a responsibility in terms of German V regulations in terms of German banks that then Irish Banks being part of the overall solution as well but Ireland on has a liability because of the way we regulated or didn't regulate banks on the question of what in this we have other than corporation taxs which still hasn't pronounced I don't think speaking English is really good enough as far as I can see there will be a Consolidated tax base and there should be but if there isn't some type of incentiv to encourage far investment into Ireland the only other method I can see and it's the last any is lowering matri and I can't see that happening in this economy should okay thank you D next uh I think uh John Barry and I'll come back to you in a minute John Barry again question John you were chairing this morning so you know what to do yes um thank you um it's a very big question seems to go to the heart of the issue that um looking at the political economy crisis um isn't it time for us to face the fact even though ourselves as greens that the era of Orthodox undifferentiated economic growth is now over that our death based carbon based system needs to be Reed and ourselves

[1:37:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=5850s) the green New Deal in Europe for greens is a a green pism you know in a way betrays this IDE trying to get economic growth again that really po Monty it's a dead Parish it's served us well but it's dead let's move on thank you thank you very much question yeah um so uh Vinay Gupta pirate party I'd like to take a slight bit different angle on this which is to look at the corporate corporate governance aspect directly right this debt was not uh generated by recklessness on the part of governments uh throwing money into a furnace it was generated by private investors who took enormous risks given a set of assumptions the assumptions turn out to be wrong uh when this happened in 2003 to the dot industry Untold billions of value were generated out and nobody got anything in the way of bailouts when it happens to the banking sector because they have depositors as hostages because they have mortgage holders as hostages all of a sudden it becomes a government crisis and there's an absolutely vast transfer of wealth from the public Pur who have committed no fault to cover the bets of Private Industry who would not have paid a red cent in taxes had their bets been successful so we talk about these issues as if we're addressing the fundamental problem and we talk about making countries pay but the fundamental problem is we should have let the banks go bankrupt so I would like us to take a look at this again and ask the panel to H talk about this from the perspective of say the US approach of re reimplementing L deagle how do we create a system when the next time this happens as it inevitably will the damage is contained among the people that would have profited from the BET contain the risk from gambling this is the answer thank you working I don't know anyway as at the back here

[1:40:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=6000s) and the country indignation and I abely people and the size of this country and um to many people like that um hard belong the justy of fellow citizens should realize that and there's so much set the fact that the um tax system people you know in any other country would be fair share think fism should just stop accepting has to be a question it won't work just just shout or just make your voice heard question probably um yeah I that we have cost the tax 6 one of the major cost of the was B posi which was many of those CI so we out ourselves in many ways but that price know baing out the positiv cost thanks here I just conscious this morning for those of you who are here listening to Ry context to this question it's the relation to the nature of what money is and what money became it seems to me that we address money in a way in this rather old fashion we're trying to deal with these issues and we keep trying to to a level that is not needs to be

[1:42:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=6150s) addressed Banks couldn't be allowed to fail because we have a l liit related system and if they fail in anywhere it's going to affect us all and the nature of money we think of money we think money as coin we money as Deb money as we money as B against B what is the level of money and what is being done Europe to address the issues of the changes and understanding money and what okay to join yourit Euro building following on from new and from John economic grow grow is the answer to all the problems simply it's not going to find out the issue is that we can solve our debt by getting economic growth so saying if we can't have economic growth is not possible but how we solve the debt we have a major reduction in debt GRE especially in ourselves so we have reduce that eom grow and the final question the in Spain the situation in Spain your job few unlo and I just want to know comp like Germany it seems to me that they have changed in the past and my question to to the audience and theel is that it seems to me that in some countries in Europe the situation is ridiculous in Spain absolutely ridiculous that it seems to me that we talking about the crisis are there any projects to try to harmonize and like Spain or Portugal after 7 months or 9 months you are not benefit in situation is different each is different and it seems to me that kind of harmonization of the state

[1:45:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=6300s) and okay well just to summarize answer this but one thing that is coming across is the whole idea of growth and the Paradigm of growth is it as an end now how can we have infinite economic growth on a finite planet um that seems to be and and uh we see the consequences of that and there have been other questions then about the banking system itself youve made list of those questions so perhaps again Ambassador yourself unfortunately I don't have an answer to this question but there certainly is a need for different growth model um whether we should actually drop the Trum growth I'm not quite sure you know maybe we could care but for for political leadership for a politician to do um um you let's say political leaders in order to actually to implement policy you need a mandate and I would be a bit afraid that if we were to Pro the whole concept of growth as such you would not get a mandate you would need in order to bring about a different growth model you see what I mean yeah so but there certainly is a need yeah for a different kind of growth in the future and and you know we are committed to this 2020 process and John knows probably more about in the European Union we are even trying to exceed the goals in Germany we are now committed after Fukushima just to take this issue of nuclear energy this is part of a different world world that we get out of nuclear energy yeah and certainly for for green party probably this is a major plan policy for GR model that we are committed now in Germany to get out of the exit that nuclear generated energy by 2022 you um Germany is actually um trying to let's say what what turned out to be making virt economic virtue out of political necessity the political necessity after fima was to get out of energy because there is widespread popular support in Germany for getting

[1:47:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=6450s) up for exiting nuclear energy and this of course was reinforced by pictures Fukushima so the government and by the way this government was not committed to building any new plans in Germany all it it intended to do was extending the life lifespan of existing but after hukushima the decision was taken we get out of Nu energy as part of a different growth model by 2022 and this was the political necessity the economic virtue of doing this is that also Germany has to let's say reshape its business model in the future global economy and the chanc by the way for example has said this recently we cannot ensure that uh uh German car makers will retain that global market shares in say 20 30 years from now now hopefully they will but maybe they won't so we have to in say develop a different also reshape our business model the German business model in the global economy and part of reshaping it of maintaining what Economist would call comparative advantage in the future global economy future economy that will uh will see new PS of economic power emerging such as China part of retaining our comparative advantages moving towards the green economy Germany is already a leader in Green Technology this is part of the new German business model and it was reinforced uh and will be stimulated by our decision or political decision to exit nuclear energy by 2022 uh so hopefully this will be let's say I talked about that Germany was lucky being having the first M Advantage because we had to launchs before other countries given our economic crisis in the first half of the last so maybe this hopefully will let's say provide some Ines Fukushima and the decision to get out of nuclear energy by 2022 some IND to reshape our business in future Ro economy towards New Technology Energy Sav yeah fighting climate change we have

[1:50:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=6600s) a major solar producing industry in Germany we increasingly increasing competitive pressur from China on solars for example but Le because of the red green government the feed in tariff for example yeah we are now also reaping the B of taking this initiative earlier than other industrial states countries to develop Green Technology and have this to be an indigenous comparative advantage in the global economy because the Chinese will always be able to or if it's not the Chinese and there will be others so if you want to generate and maintain a high standard of living you have to develop your comparative advantages and we see this this a green economy Green Technology is one of the future compar ofman um social minimum standards yeah well there are some minimum standards already for example on neor in at the EU level but I have to say in at the EU level but I have to say this is so far has been closely guarded territory by the member states member states have refused yeah that the EU gets deeper into this part of their what they call National sovereignty so individually this is not a government position I would be in favor if indeed there is something and we do think and also as I quoted the Prime Minister thinks that is something like European social model you that that some let's say standards we we introduce that would B this social economic model because at the end of the day this is prob this is in a sense a major of support for the European Union I I totally agre but it is for the member states at this point in time to do so um and if I may just also say this there was someone saying they e out of B in gree now whe this is true or not but I would like to suggest that you look at

[1:52:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=6750s) the report yeah and I would like two things please look at the report what they did not do during the past few years in order of having having what they haven't done the past years in order to sustain there is so many deficiencies that have culated in GRE unfortunately that is not because of outside interference that has been their own decision but the trit report when you look at this it's quite in terms of deficits deficiencies shortcom that some people pay Tex it's outrageous it's outrageous you get GRE people the people buying property in because they afraid they might lose their money I saying this to I'm only saying there are so many shortcom they are the are responsible not the people on the street and that is my second Point people are suffering now who are not responsible for the mess in Greece this is strong but they the wrong people those people on the street whether they out things or not that are suffering from from a failed a failed economic and social model inre I have to say to stress this my last Point John um is yes uh we need AER and less banking system uh and I really agree with Paul this can only be brought up at the European level maybe not at the EU level but yeah uh some countries for example don't participate in financial transaction tax maybe not at the European level but at least at the EUR level we have to achieve it thank you OT and Paul yeah the question from the Spanish lady there on will we have harmonized welfare systems if it holds together I think we will in about 50 to 100 years perhaps and not in the future on growth uh I I don't like using the word I try and use the word development but you have to if you're an economist you have to use the word it comes up all the time I go

[1:55:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAfvWnkEwYs&t=6900s) I'm an advisor to the oecd and they're doing some very interesting work on redefining growth and they def this is serious they're not just doing it um they're doing they've had lots and lots of meetings I've attended some of them on redefining uh growth or developments whatever you seem to be aware of that just on a positive note um half of our exports from Ireland this year will now be Services which don't suck up and use finite resources and I think that's a positive development to let you up um on the issue of um the debt and um I I think that this is I suppose we talk about being forced into a bailout actually the bailout was coming so I don't think there's a lot of reality around that it Chang quicker because of ECB intervention than which otherwise would have however where I think we are B with the ECB is having socialized the death um the bomb holders were not burned to use the bank phras in other words those who took the risk as V had said were not made to pay the people were made to pay and they're losing Services as a result H and I think the solution to that was the third the third step which we all expect that having been forced to socialize the debt the debt would then be restructured and this is not happening it's stored H clearly the IMF are in favor of restructuring the debt um I think that should probably be even stronger on this than it is but the the EC is not and the Council of ministers Council of most recently Council of Finance ministers seems to be against de restructuring I think this is nonsense we can't we have to restructure the debt both private and public all of Europe however we do it they don't want to do it by printing money we can't do it by devu so how do we we do have to address it because it is the third step if you centralize the de

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Continues in https://guptaoption.com/texts/391-3.md (part 3 of 3).
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