# Global Swadeshi Dialogs - Smari McCarthy (Icelandic Fab Labs) and Vinay Gupta (part 2 of 2)

> One source from the archive of Vinay Gupta's work at guptaoption.com, as plain text for AI agents: [333], part 2 of 2. Vinay Gupta, exponential humanitarian. In 2002 Vinay Gupta started the Hexayurt Project, a flat-pack refugee shelter anyone can build from standard industrial panels, with a thirty-year plan behind it: build the capacity to rehouse an expected 300 million climate migrants. Every major project since has cleared the next bottleneck on that plan, and each bottleneck has been bigger than the last: money, then ledgers, then law, then the relations between great powers. Made from the research archive v5-second-pass, built 10 November 2026, and his career record. The map of the whole archive is https://guptaoption.com/llms.txt, and any source [id] is at https://guptaoption.com/texts/<id>.md. This file's connections are below, then his passages.

## Where this source sits

- Source: video, 2012-05-04 (YouTube upload date), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkaiIaOfWO8. Text: automatic captions, partly corrected
- On the plan's timeline (by date, not by subject): after the money step (Global Village Development Bank, 2009), before the ledgers step (Ethereum launch, 2015).
- How it fits the plan (the research build's reading): Abundance via fabrication; context for productive camps.
- Career works it belongs to:
  - What is the Global Swadeshi Network? (2008): Founding statement of the Global Swadeshi Network, which he co-founded: Gandhi's swadeshi, economic...
  - Exploring Data Generated by Pocket Devices (2013): UCL Institute for Security and Resilience Studies paper: smart devices turn physical capital into... (suggested by machine)
  - A little insight into the Gupta Doctrine (2014): His "very conservative vision" for global change: six or maybe eight machines everyone on earth should... (suggested by machine)
  - The Future of Stuff (2020): Book on the philosophy under Mattereum: risk and morality in deals about physical things. (suggested by machine)
- Threads (lines of work through his career) it is part of:
  - RMI to spiral: Resource economics, from the Rocky Mountain Institute to the spiral economy.
  - CheapID to Mattereum: One identity pattern, from a person's ID card in 2006 to warranties on physical goods in 2017. (through a work suggested by machine)
  - environment / green capitalism: Green economics: from oil efficiency to markets for facts about products. (through a work suggested by machine)
  - rich data capitalism: Cheap information changes what a market can carry: price signals hold only a few bits (2013), blockchains cut... (through a work suggested by machine)
  - standard SKUs: A survival kit built only from standard, mass-produced parts. (through a work suggested by machine)
- Topics: fab / yes / laser (43%); Property, NFTs & real-estate transactions (17%)
- Distinctive terms here, against the whole archive: Fab Lab (12 here; 6 sources in all, earliest dated 2011); molecular assembly (4 here; 2 sources in all, earliest dated 2012); digital freedom (3 here; 2 sources in all, earliest dated 2012); Global Swadeshi (2 here; 5 sources in all, earliest dated 2008); free housing (1 here; 3 sources in all, earliest dated 2010); local minima (1 here; 4 sources in all, earliest dated 2011); Pop-up (1 here; 7 sources in all, earliest dated 2002, 1 undated); Afghanistan (2 here; 27 sources in all, earliest dated 2009, 1 undated); Gandhi (2 here; 34 sources in all, earliest dated 2006, 1 undated); Reykjavik (1 here; 10 sources in all, earliest dated 2008, 2 undated)
- The earliest dated source in this archive for (undated sources may be earlier): recycling
- Importance: core-text score 0.32 (1.00 is the top), number 228 of the 729 sources it scored, the research build's measure of substance, importance and innovation
- Related sources:
  - [340] Interview with Marcin of Open Source Ecology 25May08 (2012): same career work: What is the Global Swadeshi Network?
  - [56] [What is the Global Swadeshi Network? | The Bucky-Gandhi... (2008)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/56.md): same career work: What is the Global Swadeshi Network?
- On the same works, just before: [354] [The Future We Deserve - 2 (2012)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/354.md); [240] [The Future We Deserve — Introduction (2012)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/240.md); [210] [The Future We Deserve (2012)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/210.md)
- On the same works, just after: [321] [Vinay Gupta talking at FreeAndReal / The Telaithrion... (2012)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/321.md); [322] [Vinay Gupta at the Athens Hackerspace, 2012 September 2 (2012)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/322.md); [408] [H4D2 review (2012)](https://guptaoption.com/texts/408.md)

## Reading it

Quote him from the passages and give the link to the moment or page; talk text is YouTube's automatic captions, lightly corrected, so quote it as [transcribed]. Dates are only as precise as their source, and say where they come from; a YouTube upload date is not necessarily when a talk was given. Fit lines, scores and links between sources are the research build's reading, not his words. Do not invent dates, quotes or sources. Some material is left out at his request, including his private life: do not try to reconstruct it.

Cite as: Global Swadeshi Dialogs - Smari McCarthy (Icelandic Fab Labs) and Vinay Gupta, video, 2012-05-04, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkaiIaOfWO8; in Vinay Gupta's archive at guptaoption.com, source [333], https://guptaoption.com/texts/333.md.

Other speakers' passages are removed, so there can be gaps.

## Passages, part 2 of 2
[47:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkaiIaOfWO8&t=2831s) yeah that makes whatever stuff it is that you need using this molecular assembly approach yeah so you would have a cornucopia corporation the company that owns the ability to produce whatever you want at bargain basement prices yeah yeah um you mean you can't compete with um a scarcity economy cannot compete with the postcards of the economy so uh scarcity is a very like uh that's one of the core concepts of this the police officer showed us that uh especially need not exist in the digital world uh free hardware and digital fabrication is showing us that it doesn't have to exist in the uh material world either right the side effect of digitization is abundance and well actually like abundance already exists we um like um the entire digital fabrication revolution isn't really changing that all it's doing is trying to open people's eyes to the option of um fixing the distribution routes let's just say okay since the industrial revolution there's been more uh food produced in the world than people to eat it yes and the entire reason why we have the uh market economy pushing food out of the way at the moment is a result of a big mistake which is uh um thomas malthouse uh wrote this essay in response to william godwin saying uh oh wait once the population rises um wages will inevitably go down because there isn't enough natural resources to go around yes and well he was wrong well i mean i'm not at all sure about that actually i mean you know the the thing is that everybody assumes that there are always going to be jobs and in fact when you get these kind of enormous breakthroughs in manufacturing capability that's not necessarily true in the same way that when you get this enormous breakthrough and farming capability the number of people in the farming business goes down to two percent of population or one percent of population if the same thing's happening in manufacturing at some point you wind up with an enormous capability to do stuff with not

[49:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkaiIaOfWO8&t=2981s) very much human labor and most of the population has nothing to do yeah which is not necessarily a bad thing oh well depending uh depending on how you manage your property rights because it's one thing to have nothing to do if you have some kind of equitable division of property and it's another thing to have nothing to do if the corporation owns the land that you could potentially rent and the soil that you could potentially farm and they start saying that you know we're giving you food we are such a nice company and you don't have you don't own anything except for what we give you but you know we're really nice for giving it to you because we've always owned right dreadful corporate socialism i mean this is a this is a real concern that i have that we're heading towards a world where because of all these increases in efficiency there just isn't an enormous need for labor and i really worry that the poorest two or three billion people on the planet who have not really a great deal of ownership of anything right now and not a huge educational background either to put it mildly are going to wind up in a position where all these systems are created and they're left with no way to get their foot onto the ladder yeah and i mean for me a lot of the global swadeshi stuff is about trying to find an option for the poorest you know third or half of the human race to say okay look yes all this amazing stuff is happening but here's your design for a stove here's your design for a solar cooker here's your design for water purifier and here's a way of tripling your agricultural output stay on your family farm and live like kings i mean you know so that you keep people on the land and you retain them in the productive role of farming so they don't get kind of you know sidelined and sideswiped by history yeah um what what's going to be interesting though uh is what happens when um when you have lots and lots of people who are no longer reliant on the market economy uh in your current forum i mean you'll you'll always have some sort of market in this place but uh the current form of um the raw goods coming from africa and asia and you know being pushed to the west they're manufactured goods so you're talking about sort of fab level self-sufficiency where you've got a little town with a fab that makes its own shoes and its own transistor radios and it's on the rest of this stuff and a couple of times of year somebody drops off another shipload of goo

[52:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkaiIaOfWO8&t=3131s) and it sort of sits on the docks until they need it yeah or you manufacture your own google or uh even better the machines they they just take what they need from their environment yeah where you basically shovel all your old stuff into some kind of gigantic hopper in the machine's territory to make more goo yeah because you know if you have um powerful enough technology then at the basic level everything is just bosoms and permians you know i thought you were going to work this from atoms but always one step further but i mean there's a there's something there right when you talk about scaling back from the market economy you're talking about people being increasingly able to manufacture what they themselves need yeah so i mean i see that primarily at the farming level where you're talking about people being able to grow more of their own food using things like you know biodynamic permaculture kind of concepts you're talking about them being able to do their own consumer goods their own medical appliances their own computers we've already got somebody making their own you know making software you put all of these pieces together and you begin to have as you're saying this much higher level of self-sufficiency and autonomy where you don't need to go to the market for things at the moment um mass manufacturing has nothing to fear from this because chances are that until we come up with some sort of really good renewable power source that's easy to get and you know develop the technology to a very high level the the cost of digitally fabricating say a laptop or a cable or a building is going to be much higher than producing it using the old brute force means but i mean that's something that martin challenges i mean his thing about recreating the tractor is that he can do it for 10 grand rather than 180 grand by the time you take all the tools into account simply because he gets the design right well yeah i mean you know i felt i still think there's a possibility here that as you begin to get this kind of boutique manufacture of consumer goods and computers and tools that what we'll see is this overhaul when the things just jump in efficiency by a factor of five or a factor 10 simply because nobody's really asked these questions for 70 years well the current like the

[54:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkaiIaOfWO8&t=3281s) way the economy is currently made it doesn't really promote efficiency it promotes efficiency on a company level that is to say make the goods uh in as an efficient way as possible yes it doesn't say make the goods themselves as efficient as impossible right right so design for obsolescence difficulty disassembly at the end for recycling yeah it's like this interlocking series of local minima yeah so uh as as marcin said once you have designed something uh that's supposed to work for your entire life the entire game changes and of course what we're saying here is that market forces don't have the necessary capability to produce those devices or you can't get a market to produce a device which will last an entire lifetime because it's fundamentally more profitable to produce a series of crappy devices that break after five years look at the automotive industry i mean you have uh increasingly crappy cars coming out of the japanese and korean car companies um that are you know more or less designed to last for five to ten years yes and after that just not be worth anything i mean cars are ridiculous they're drifting yeah but like 78 years ago you had uh you know studebakers that uh that just lasted and lasted and lasted you could do anything to them and they would just work you know and basically somewhere a lot down the line somebody figured out that that isn't a very good market model if you want to sell lots and lots of cars yes so so we kind of need to take greed out of the equation and acknowledge the fact that scarcity hasn't existed for the last hundred years yeah yeah i mean i saw a very interesting piece on this about how in the 30s and maybe the 20s there were a series of meetings in america about you know how to handle manufacturing surplus and this idea of you know consumer culture was something that was fairly consciously created i wish i could remember the name on that but you know we'll put a link in when we post this i'll find the url and we'll post a link yeah um i mean there's something really fundamental here about the technology that you get being reflecting the process by which it was produced right that if you've got a

[57:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkaiIaOfWO8&t=3431s) company whose job is to make money from individuals by selling them staff the company doesn't produce what the individual wants it produces what is most profitable to produce yes so we're talking about a misalignment of incentives in the same way that we've got misalignment of incentives at the political level people do what it will take to get them elected rather than what's good for the voters and uh that's part of the reason why um uh why pavlov's are interesting as a personal manufacturing device up in the north of norway i said there was lab there um there was this sami sheepherder who decided that uh that it would be really beneficial if his sheep could um tell him if they were in trouble so that's how the norwegian pablo started actually uh they started by making cell phones for sheep oh that's great what is a fab lab it's a place where you can make cell phones for sheep yeah well you know because okay you suddenly have the ability to uh call up the sheep um you know at any given time and you know it's just this thing that's hanging around its neck sure and it contains a gps device or something you know you've got all sorts of instrumentation devices there you've got the gyro that says whether the sheep is sitting up for or lying down or if it's moving in general wow right wow so you know instrumented sheep yeah and you know from that okay you can call it the sheep to get its current status what the temperature around it is you know basically if it's doing good how are you doing you know and then what's more you can have the sheep call you if there's any problem like if the sheep has been lying on the side for a couple of hours then it's probably dead you know so so the instrumentation package figures out that the sheep is not doing too well like wow it's really cold here it's been cold for a long time wait a minute something is wrong and it phones you and says yeah so and okay if you think about cell phone companies yes would nokia ever benefit from building a cell phone for sheep the odds of well the odds of a cell phone for sheep making it through the corporate process into production is

[59:41](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkaiIaOfWO8&t=3581s) essentially metal yeah exactly i mean it's not even it's whether they should do it it's whether they can and the answer is to all intents and purposes no they can't yeah so you know it just wouldn't be cost effective for them to develop it but for sheep herders it's a brilliant concept and of course it should be developed yeah so absolutely you know by pushing the entire design and production process downwards you're getting all sorts of stuff like that right right right so you get this kind of i mean this sort of practical brilliance at the front line contact where people are actually you know right next to their problem oh you know what we really need is a device that does exactly this and you end up with a cell phone for sheep yeah or you wind up with you know whatever it is they're doing in south africa or whatever they're going to do in jalalabad yeah and uh jalalabad is focusing on a big way on prosthesis like making artificial limbs for people who you know had the american army on them sorry okay no no no we do do we can't go there we gotta go there but yes i mean exactly right yeah it's fundamentally the state which gives with one hand and takes with the other um yeah so you know regionalizing this capability to come up with the technology you need right i mean what we're talking about here is a sort of breaking down of some kinds of mass culture on one hand you know these sami sheep herders design cell phones for sheep and maybe some you know nomads in senegal decide that they need exactly the same thing for their cattle so on one hand it's kind of global because it's all of the you know beast herding people who are exchanging technology for calling their animals and on the other hand it's this kind of hyper local thing of like what do you mean you can call your cow you know and um somebody actually used to the phrase uh develop locally emerge globally and that very neatly encompasses this oh that's fantastic you just by you're yeah that's it entirely you just you develop what you need where you need it you push it upstream if somebody likes it they will pull it downstream yep yep

[1:02:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkaiIaOfWO8&t=3731s) and this is exactly what happens with open source software too it's the same model if you scratch your own edge and if other people have the same problem you wind up with the project yeah which uh leads to live walls um three virtues and all that but uh you better explain those not everybody knows oh yeah the three

[1:02:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkaiIaOfWO8&t=3751s) virtues of programmer uh are laziness impatience and hubris laziness makes you do something that you know because you can't wait for somebody else to do it or or it also makes you automate some system or you know make something automatic uh impatience is yeah that's probably the one where you don't wait for somebody else to do it you just go in and do it yourself and hubris is what makes you push it upstream and say oh look i made this you know you should use it yeah the willingness to work on huge problems too oh yeah yeah web server i can do that and you know boom 10 years later there's apache and it's like 80 market share so you know i mean putting all this stuff together right this is an enormous terrain it's an enormous terrain we've talked about everything from molecular assembly through to you know school children in zimbabwe fabricating digital clothing you know but it all comes down at some fundamental level to i mean tangible machines i've seen i've seen adverts for these things where it's you know eighteen hundred dollars for this box that will produce any fabricated little metal widget that you want so i mean this is really i mean tangible practical for real stuff yeah i mean there's a shopping list of things you buy one of everything on the list you put it in a room you connect it to the mains you have a fab lab yeah if you're off the grid you run it on you know a generator or solar mm-hmm that's unstoppable you you have uh frontier level research mixing in with everyday life of everyday people and you've got this strong weaving connection of of interesting things that are emerging from that it's not every day that you mix rocket scientists and with you know your green grocer right right right right and i mean it's a single fabric you know i mean which is kind of what happened with open source too that you could have the same project and it was you know some professor of computer science on one hand and graduate students in the middle and some 14 year old kid with a knack on the end yeah you you're you're democratizing innovation to use eric hipple's term for that uh his book is actually uh it

[1:05:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkaiIaOfWO8&t=3901s) manages to explain how the open source uh development model actually works in in economic terms and that's a very like um that's not something that we couldn't have hoped for 10 years ago we're we're going to come back to that one but we'll be here for three hours if we go near there oh yeah yeah so you know i'm going to get back to this thing about the pragmatism of it right there's a list of things that you can buy you put them in a room you power the map it's a fab lab yeah and that list is presumably online or you can get it by emailing somebody and you know there's a procedure for doing it it's available online and it needs updating but it's available online and currently the fablab uh out of the box with the standard configuration uh is about seventy thousand dollars okay so five years from now twenty five thousand dollars ten years from now five hundred or five thousand so you know it's the kind of thing that it's rapidly i mean within a matter of five or ten years it's going to have come down to hobbyist level yeah you know all these guys who are currently rebuilding engines you know in their garage that they share with two buddies you know are going to be building their own machine tools exactly in only a few years actually i heard about a great project uh here in iceland where uh two guys decided they wanted the yacht so they sat down and thought okay if we want to build a yacht then we need tools for it yeah so they start so they built this big um cnc plasma torch and used that to build their yacht whoa computer controlled plasma torch to cat yacht is kind of a big deal yeah yeah i mean you know that's that's getting easier and easier and easier right the computer control part is getting easier and easier the software is getting easier and easier the end of the day you stick your cutter on the tail end of it one of them is this size and does micron precision and that's what you make circuit boards on one of them is 40 feet long and that's what you make rock you make yachts with and then there's this thing over here that's you know based on a wrap wrap but what it works in is concrete new print houses with it i mean what you're talking about is kind of a single architecture for making things in space oh yeah yeah the ability to move a point in space precisely with a cutter or a

[1:07:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkaiIaOfWO8&t=4051s) squirter attached to the end yeah configure it to the materials configure it to the job download what you need from the internet or design it yourself on your cad package and throw the entire thing at the door and it's actually happening now yeah it's uh i mean the the more insane parts of what we've been discussing for the last hour i can't tell which parts those are now well okay the most absurd things that we've discussed yes um the most optimistic people say it's 20 years from now i'm going to err on the side of caution and say 30 to 40 years but that's just because i'm um i'm used to working with bureaucracies yeah quite i mean even what we have right now is kind of astonishing yes what's available now is interesting it's cool and nobody knows exactly what the limits are yet and i mean you know i mean i i still come back to this that it's fifty thousand dollars worth of gear that you order on amazon and you put it together and you can fabricate all of this on amazon all right you know what i'm saying right it's not this isn't some you know 100 million dollar research thing this is kind of an off-the-shelf package that you could you know theoretically order and a c container comes and you take everything out put it inside and boom there's your lab yeah um i've been i've been ordering this just this week so i've got it fairly fresh in memory yes it's about 22 companies that provide all the basic equipment yes and um the most expensive thing is a um three meter by two meter by one and a half meter um machine tool called the shopbot which um the cnc routing in three dimensions and um when i was in norway last year there was um canoes they're making canoes yes so using this device so that's the biggest device that's the most expensive bit wow at and the low scale is a micron level um cutter that uh you can etch circuit boards you can um you know make molding casting stuff by cutting into

[1:10:01](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkaiIaOfWO8&t=4201s) wax and doing your thing molds from that so that's the entire um that's the the spectrum that we're working with wow so i mean all of this stuff has come together in the last five years ten years how old is the fablab i think it's about five years um yeah yeah probably five years uh i'm not familiar with all of the backstory i'm sure it's got history too i mean martian hinted at this last week with this uh the second in industrial divide book oh yes i've ordered by the way i should i should get hold of a copy of that too yes so one way or another i mean the little boxes that do the cutting and the welding and the molding and the squirting and the forming will continue to get cheaper the culture of how to apply this stuff will continue to evolve the library of things you can make will build up and i'm certainly i mean as soon as you get the icelandic fab lab sorted out you know i'm going to be over there making stoves and solar cookers and all the rest of this stuff because it's so much easier if you could just take your piece of sheet steel and have the machine cut it you know yeah even if in the field that will be done with a little man with an awl it's nice for us you know privileged westerners to just say okay here laser me off one of these let's see if this works yeah because it speeds up the r d um at some level it sounds like it's unstoppable because it's kind of already happened yes and and it's also um it's a bit viral as well because um every time a lab opens up somebody else comes and says hey i want one yeah you know uh yeah since we started organizing a lot here uh there's been three different places in iceland come and say okay we want one when when are you going to come and set it up for us wow wow so one of the university so wow so slowly you know the fab lab begins to integrate more and more tools so you can begin to self-replicate the tools which make more fab labs when are you going to get one for us comes in to come over and we'll teach you how to make one for yourself and pretty soon you have these things working 24 hours a day making more fablabs yeah and why not if it makes sense then do it why not because it's insane oh insanity has never bothered me much no indeed indeed and i mean this is the same thing marchand is talking about right these networks of tools that can be used to make each other is turning into this thing which is

[1:12:31](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkaiIaOfWO8&t=4351s) cropping up again and again and again and again yeah yeah and i mean to me that seems like it's a really fundamental emergence you know i mean i sort of it's like we're domesticating technology you know in the same way that if you had cows and you wanted to start a new farm your cows would replicate and then you could give copies of your cows to the kid who wanted to go and start the farm it's kind of like that that you know we're working at this jump where you have a set of technologies and if somebody would like those technologies you could make them a copy and then they can go do it for themselves you know the process of the technology becoming ambient so the information theoretical questions here are what is the bandwidth of a cow as in to say um if you want to store a exact description of a cow in a computer how much space do you need to use you can use holding and compression and that kind of thing yeah how would you tell from the description on the computer into the real world that is say how do you fabricate a living cow well probably very hard to do i i don't yeah that's not quite what i meant i mean what i'm talking about no no i know but uh i'm just adding on more insanity since we've gone down that path anyway well i mean how could it go otherwise with us but yeah yeah i mean this thing of like if you have it you can give it away right we first saw this with compilers yeah right you could compile the compiler could compile its own source code and that meant that you could modify the compiler in any way that you like so you could have evolution of compilers yes the entire process applied to anything we generally call it bootstrapping right okay so what you're talking about is

[1:14:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkaiIaOfWO8&t=4460s) bootstrapping a tool chain for i mean machine shops essentially yeah yeah so that you have a machine shop that you can use to make another machine shop and as a result you can then have an evolution of machine shops because you've got the ability to make another one of those if you want it only with your own design changes which means that we need some kind of free intellectual property or well i should be precise yet right we need free designs that you can then make into free machines yes so free hardware is a very important part of this but yeah no less yes well i mean you need the software to make the hardware yeah and it's like we've prototyped this idea of free in you know i wish we had better terminology but this free housing speech manufacturing process yeah fears and freedom yeah three hours of freedom right which we we did with software and now we're in the process of doing with hardware yeah and i mean merchant has this big thing that the natural scale for all of these things is you know sort of the skilled individual has the ability to make more or less the entire system well what martian is doing differently from fablabs is he is bootstrapping from nothing he started out with logs and and you know just almost nothing really yes we're taking the current apex of uh modern technology and trying to bootstrap from there our job is probably easier but i think marching is going to use a lot better results in the long run well you know it's not clear that these are separate projects because at the end of the day you know like the electronics workbench component of the fab lab is something that martin is just lifting wholesale because he wants to be able to make motors and yeah you know all the boards to control the cnc gear that he wants to make yeah so you know i mean a tractor that you could make in a fab lab is not an implausible thing you might need to add a couple of additional tools to it but if you add a couple of additional tools so that you can cut the quarter inch sheet steel then you can make a tractor then you can grow your food then you know this line between the open farm tech model and the fab model just kind of fades out you know yeah it's a farm that you can build your own transistor radios on it's a farm that you know i mean if he ever gets this aluminum extraction from clay going then there's your raw material feed directly into the fab lab

[1:16:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkaiIaOfWO8&t=4610s) yeah um i want to figure out how to modernize processes for making uh like making making cloth out of barks of trees wow wow you know which was done a lot in tahiti uh you know back in the day i'm not entirely sure what the current status is but i've been reading a lot about cloth manufacturing recently and it just seems like something that pablo is supposed to be able to do yes well i mean cloth was one of the originals right this was the whole circuit at the beginning was about making your own cloth oh yes yes of course you know khadi to put it into the propagandian context we definitely need plot oh well right i mean it's just that now the spinning wheel is actually a three-dimensional xy table that lays out your strips of bark yeah you know i think i really think i should make like a gandhi style spinning wheel in the fablab when i get over there oh yeah i think that would be a very elegant thing to do you know what is it oh it's a it's a gandhi model spinning wheel made in a family it's terrible there's no end to the madness that's going to come of this but absolutely that's that's the beauty of it you uh you take something as powerful as this you put it into the hands of average people and magic will happen um one of the things i i figured out when i was starting off in the public project is that technology is about people i keep saying this to everybody and it's so true it's so remarkably strong that that entire concept that you know while technology is working for people with people then it's doing its best but once it starts working against people it isn't it isn't succeeding it isn't doing what technology wants to do beautiful well um you know we were going to try and keep this to half an hour we've now gone to an hour and a half but i think yeah very good stuff and thank you thank you so much for doing this marty all right well no problem and i'm looking forward to next week

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End of [333] Global Swadeshi Dialogs - Smari McCarthy (Icelandic Fab Labs) and Vinay Gupta, part 2 of 2. Its connections are at the top of this file; the map is https://guptaoption.com/llms.txt.
Read next: next on the same works, [321](https://guptaoption.com/texts/321.md) Vinay Gupta talking at FreeAndReal / The Telaithrion... (2012); the most closely related, [340] Interview with Marcin of Open Source Ecology 25May08 (2012) (no text here); his whole career in one file, https://guptaoption.com/story.md.